X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web46406.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([68.180.199.195] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.5) with SMTP id 4219015 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:51:00 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.180.199.195; envelope-from=dwayneparkinson@yahoo.com Received: (qmail 71714 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Apr 2010 20:50:24 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1271105424; bh=URE1NEZVbPmLJhRDDMTyi5roYbKxyD4l4K3CBV7WlVg=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Oewn8r2LDbsmRO1WBf1BwrUvavsldvhenI9X0I7l1G/EtZXB3NBYwhGVZczibGbz37CQPMsOrgnBMQnswLPvwOS73LZrcmy8AH2IjhWcVTtWq1Vdd7QivXtokuqImiQ1AwAs/W0g0uXqSC3NmDSQHtAqPwo7SdrFOsmqp795ubk= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=VKajkNx9ycBAJgemfI7DpmGqGIrY2+a40asHRyHeNi/waFyK7fbBZBi47w0HpJ0r3cyED40QTZI3RdYhGkHI+VFQ7Ko7w1ed1B16LAJaV+Lw+/aP6klhdtArmWd6heJWZRzI+ZF1/5CgLYR3RvNSx2FhUaa1W1OZCPNppbAIsnY=; Message-ID: <287690.70954.qm@web46406.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 8nBLFR4VM1kRqQ4Pzl2EaBdZ__JS1eEeXeq0beL0_Gy.z0s 7fxpRBlO9BFCwc3Q.8M4K1oFftdZCFaaOUb0nAFmhsYKUMFCuD4HQoKirp5w UMxuz9rw5Y_KuyW95O_r8kJ74xQGxqgcdy9al6EPHBRVa2THo5IwOuxA84nN RCRWkdraIdkqJhWVZLQDhVs3kIequlk7KR22odaQn1nRmT.mSoo.0wX6joqF HKZIh_WoItFHQ0eOS_5gnoXEIECJRLiKqnnR0NtIREiFN8hJn0JNPbM6jxQq AzmcHybUEqd8kl1sT_Ojd Received: from [24.177.130.10] by web46406.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:50:23 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/348.3 YahooMailWebService/0.8.100.260964 References: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 13:50:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Dwayne Parkinson Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Tangential muffler To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1883557004-1271105423=:70954" --0-1883557004-1271105423=:70954 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sounds like you've tinkered with mufflers a lot. Have you ever employed a = conical tail pipe?=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Mark St= eitle =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Mon, April 12, 2010 1:43:38 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary]= Re: Tangential muffler=0A=0A=0ADwane,=0A =0AOK, you hold your hand over th= e end while I rev it up. ;-0 =0A =0AKeep in mind that in an earlier muffl= er design similar to the Moroso Spiralflow, I had an AN-3 bolt holding the = baffle in place. After a few hours the bolt had gotten so hot that it sagg= ed, resembling a horseshoe. The rotary's exhaust has proven to be a force = to be reconed with. Hopefully, this will be the last muffler I have to bui= ld for a while.=0A =0AMark=0A=0A=0AOn Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Dwayne = Parkinson wrote:=0A=0AThis is a very interestin= g approach. Thanks for posting the pictures. It would be very interesting= (at least to me) to measure the exhaust gas pulses at the tail pipe with t= his design. I wonder if it will normalize the pulses at all so you have an= almost steady stream of exhaust gases coming out of the pipe.=0A>=0A>=0A>= =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A________________________________=0A From: Al Gietzen =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>Sent: Mon, April 12, 2010 10:24:07 AM=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Tangential muffler=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A> =0A>Ernest;=0A> =0A>I agree that the ge= ometry of the geometry of the cuts is certainly not ideal; and if it were 3= 21SS or similar; yes, I=E2=80=99d expect it would it to disintegrate in abo= ut 50 hrs or less. But inconel is very corrosion resistant and very strong= up to 2000+F. There will be some self-annealing of the stresses at 1700F.= It would be interesting to know what temp it actually gets to because the= re is some expansion cooling of the gases in the muffler.=0A> =0A>Also it i= s very tough stuff =E2=80=93 trying to drill or file inconel will just wear= out the tools. Holes have to be punched, cut with water jet, or some othe= r technique.=0A> =0A>It will be interesting to see how it stands up; but I = think it has a good chance to prove to be quite durable.=0A> =0A>Al=0A> =0A= >A grinder will leave two fairly severe 90 degree corners on every edge =0A= >of the cut slot. Compounding this is the fact that the side grinder =0A>c= uts a circle. The end of each slot will be left with a knife edge =0A>prof= ile pointing back toward the slot. This will create some mean =0A>stress r= isers. The expectation is that this tube is to live in an =0A>environment = that has to be the closest thing to hell on Earth we could =0A>imagine (ext= reme heat and constant sonic blasts).=0A> =0A>I would have suggested drilli= ng 3/16" holes and connecting them with the =0A>grinder. Unless the inside= tube is fabricated different than what I =0A>understand, I can't help but = to think that it will have a very short =0A>life. Cracks will start in the= corners of each slot, and the tube will =0A>disintegrate. Can it be easily= pulled apart so that you could run a =0A>round needle file down both sides= of all the slots to round them out?=0A> =0A>--=0A>Homepage: http://www.fl= yrotary.com/=0A>Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html=0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A --0-1883557004-1271105423=:70954 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sounds like you've tinkered with mufflers a lot.  Have you e= ver employed a conical tail pipe?


From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net>
Sent:= Mon, April 12, 2010 1:43:38 PM
Su= bject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tangential muffler

=0A
= Dwane,
=0A
 
=0A
OK, you hold your hand over the end= while I rev it up.  ;-0 
=0A
 
=0A
Keep = in mind that in an earlier muffler design similar to the Moroso Spiralflow,= I had an AN-3 bolt holding the baffle in place.  After a few hours th= e bolt had gotten so hot that it sagged, resembling a horseshoe.  The = rotary's exhaust has proven to be a force to be reconed with.  Hopeful= ly, this will be the last muffler I have to build for a while.
=0A=0A<= div> 
=0A
Mark

=0A
On = Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Dwayne Parkinson <dwayneparkinson@yahoo.com&g= t; wrote:
=0A
=0A
=0A=0AThis is a very interesting approach.  Thanks for posting the pictur= es.  It would be very interesting (at least to me) to measure the exha= ust gas pulses at the tail pipe with this design.  I wonder if it will= normalize the pulses at all so you have an almost steady stream of exhaust= gases coming out of the pipe.
=0A=0A

=0A

= =0A
=
=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=
=0ASent: Mon, April 12,= 2010 10:24:07 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Tangential muffler

=0A
=0A

 

=0A

 

=0A

Ernest;

= =0A

&nbs= p;

=0A

I agree that the geometry of the geome= try of the cuts is certainly not ideal; and if it were 321SS or similar; ye= s, I=E2=80=99d expect it would it to disintegrate in about 50 hrs or less.&= nbsp; But inconel is very corrosion resistant and very strong up to 2000+F.=   There will be some self-annealing of the stresses at 1700F.  It= would be interesting to know what temp it actually gets to because there i= s some expansion cooling of the gases in the muffler.

=0A= =0A

 

=0A

Also it is very = tough stuff =E2=80=93 trying to drill or file inconel will just wear out th= e tools.  Holes have to be punched, cut with water jet, or some other = technique.

=0A=0A

 

=0A=

It will be interesting to see how it stands up; but I think i= t has a good chance to prove to be quite durable.

=0A

 

=0A

Al

=0A 

=0A

A grinder will leave two fairly severe 90 degree corners on ever= y edge

=0A

of the cut slot.  Compounding this is the fact th= at the side grinder

=0A

cuts a circle.  The end of each slot= will be left with a knife edge

=0A

profile pointing back toward = the slot.  This will create some mean

=0A

stress risers.&nbs= p; The expectation is that this tube is to live in an

=0A=

environ= ment that has to be the closest thing to hell on Earth we could

=0A

imagine (extreme heat and constant sonic blasts).

=0A 

=0A

I would have suggested drilling 3/16" holes and connecting them = with the

=0A

grinder.  Unless the inside tube is fabricated = different than what I

=0A

understand, I can't help but to think t= hat it will have a very short

=0A

life.  Cracks will start i= n the corners of each slot, and the tube will

=0A

disintegrate. C= an it be easily pulled apart so that you could run a

=0A<= p>round ne= edle file down both sides of all the slots to round them out?=

=0A

=  

=0A

--

=0A

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

=0A

Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html<= /span>

=0A
=0A

=0A
=
=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A --0-1883557004-1271105423=:70954--