X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao104.cox.net ([68.230.241.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.2) with ESMTP id 4123344 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:48:03 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.42; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao104.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20100213014727.JYDP16123.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:47:27 -0500 Received: from willsPC ([68.105.86.80]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id hDnF1d00F1k005Q04DnGu0; Fri, 12 Feb 2010 20:47:16 -0500 X-VR-Score: -120.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=3OYv9oSQMPl2mzQJct9Z0gr0/14v7p3aTRAVsPGESI0= c=1 sm=1 a=TWlVO4UZOuUA:10 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:17 a=5qvCLcFQWL0M8MgZ-IsA:9 a=1PAQNPXuZawHsOdLP7w28HqAXRQA:4 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=kV--yk1grcLGtuSDN1AA:9 a=QnmlNCix6feBYKJR1TwA:7 a=rW9knm5kUoWPWcqCQCWlMADcJ2AA:4 a=5zrLeAV0Z70A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=djSSOgbfo6cA:10 a=XruvlouZCDbGUgEaRUiNZQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <422B03D6DC9E461F9061DCD908DDD49D@willsPC> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: rpm vs Power was : Throttle limits was Re: N.A. Renesis to turbo Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 17:47:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0062_01CAAC0B.6A087F80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CAAC0B.6A087F80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dennis, So for that RPM, how long did your intake runners end up being? For what its worth, I tried to emulate Tracy's dynamically tuned intake = as well. But cowl constraints probably compromised the intake at the = point where the TB is mounted. This is something I want to modify = anyway. As it is things are tight enough that I cant even run any sort = of air filter, so I do need to make some changes here - may as well try = to do it right. I know I had a picture of your intake - saw it just recently. But cant = find it now. Could you re-post it? Mike From: Dennis Haverlah=20 Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 11:19 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: rpm vs Power was : Throttle limits was Re: N.A. = Renesis to turbo I used the same 65 mm Mustang throttle body on both my original and new = intakes. If I remember correctly, I believe I had a longer unused = throttle travel with the original intake but I never measured it. I = don't know the static rpm increase with the new intake - probably have = that in my notes some where but my max. rpm at high altitude (8,000 - = 10,000) increased 400-500 rpm. I estimated I went from 165 -170 HP with = the old intake to about 185 HP with the new intake. This in in line = with Ed Anderson's recent note that Mazda got about a 16% power increase = at 6000 rpm with the DIE effect. I felt much improved acceleration the = first time I took off with the new intake.=20 the new intake is based on dynamic intake effect (DIE) where the = closing of an intake valve caused the moving intake air to bounce off = the valve creating a pressure wave. The wave travels at the speed of = sound to the other intake valve and arrives there just before that valve = closes. This increases the amount of air and fuel that enters the = combustion chamber. (As we know the rotary has no valves but uses the = sides of the rotor for opening and closing the intakes.) I designed my = intake to give max. performance at 6300 rpm. If I had cut down my prop to 74" it would give me more clearance for the = prop on my RV-7A and increase my top end rpm. Max rpm is about 6400 = rpm with the new intake and the 76" prop. I'm really not needing higher = RPM now. Dennis Haverlah Bill Bradburry wrote: Dennis, Did your static rpm increase with the new manifold? How much? Did = you before and do you now have any unused throttle travel like Mike = describes? Are you using the same throttle body on the new manifold? = What is the MM opening of the Mustang body? My manifold is very similar to your old one. My tubes are cut just = above the injector bosses, which makes them a little (maybe an inch) = shorter than your old ones. I have a 76 X 88 Performance prop which I = am considering having cut down to 74" like Tracy and Ed when I send it = in for final finish. I am using an aftermarket throttle body that is = 75MM in throat diameter. This is the same size as the stock Renesis = throttle body which is why I picked it. I had intended to use the = Renesis body, but didn't wait for Tracy to get the fly by wire done. I = am not flying, but my static is 52-5300 rpm and I have a lot of throttle = left at that rpm. The last probably =BC of the travel is not used. =20 Bill B =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- ------=_NextPart_000_0062_01CAAC0B.6A087F80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dennis,
 
So for that RPM, how long did your intake = runners end up=20 being?
 
For what its worth, I tried to emulate Tracy's = dynamically tuned intake as well. But cowl constraints probably = compromised the=20 intake at the point where the TB is mounted. This is something I want to = modify=20 anyway. As it is things are tight enough that I cant even run any sort = of air=20 filter, so I do need to make some changes here - may as well try to do = it=20 right.
 
I know I had a picture of your intake - saw it = just=20 recently. But cant find it now. Could you re-post it?
 
Mike

Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 11:19 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: rpm vs Power was : Throttle limits = was Re:=20 N.A. Renesis to turbo

I used the same 65 mm Mustang throttle body on both my = original=20 and new intakes.  If  I remember correctly, I believe I had a=20 longer  unused throttle travel with the original intake but I never = measured it.  I don't know the static rpm increase with the new = intake -=20 probably have that in my notes some where but my max. rpm at high = altitude=20 (8,000 - 10,000) increased 400-500 rpm.  I estimated I went from = 165 -170=20 HP with the old intake to about 185 HP with the new intake.  This = in in=20 line with Ed Anderson's recent note that Mazda got about a 16% power = increase at=20 6000 rpm with the DIE effect.  I felt much improved acceleration = the first=20 time I took off with the new intake.

the new intake is based on=20 dynamic intake effect  (DIE) where the closing of an intake = valve=20 caused the moving intake air to bounce off the valve creating a pressure = wave.  The wave travels at the speed of sound to the other intake = valve and=20 arrives there just before that valve closes.  This increases the = amount of=20 air and fuel that enters the combustion chamber.  (As we know the = rotary=20 has no valves but uses the sides of the rotor for opening and closing = the=20 intakes.)  I designed my intake to give max. performance at 6300=20 rpm.

If I had cut down my prop to 74" it would give me more = clearance for=20 the prop on my RV-7A and increase my top end rpm.   Max rpm is = about=20 6400 rpm with the new intake and the 76" prop.  I'm really not = needing=20 higher RPM now.

Dennis Haverlah

Bill Bradburry wrote:
=

Dennis,

Did your static rpm increase with the new=20 manifold?  How much?  Did you before and do you now have any = unused=20 throttle travel like Mike describes?   Are you using the = same=20 throttle body on the new manifold?  What is the MM opening of the = Mustang=20 body?

My manifold is very similar to your old = one.  My=20 tubes are cut just above the injector bosses, which makes them a = little (maybe=20 an inch) shorter than your old ones.  I have a 76 X 88 = Performance prop=20 which I am considering having cut down to 74=94 like Tracy and Ed when = I send it=20 in for final finish.  I am using an aftermarket throttle body = that is=20 75MM in throat diameter.  This is the same size as the stock = Renesis=20 throttle body which is why I picked it.  I had intended to use = the=20 Renesis body, but didn=92t wait for Tracy to get the fly by wire = done.  I am=20 not flying, but my static is 52-5300 rpm and I have a lot of throttle = left at=20 that rpm.  The last probably =BC of the travel is not=20 used.

 

Bill B

 

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