Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #50010
From: George Lendich <lendich@aanet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Air Pump
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2010 10:45:52 +1000
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Shipchief,
I get my lead on calculations from Ed, he's the Guru on numbers here.
George ( down under)
 
I'm remembering that early turbojet engines were sometimes designed with centrifugal compressors because compression ratios of up to 8:1 are possible. Axial compressors are much lower per stage, like about 1.8:1 or something?
I suppose compressor wheel rim speed is esential for boost pressure, and wheel thickness for volume. So there are your limits, About 6000 RPM, about 11" diameter compressor wheel about 2" thick at the eye (narrower at the rim where the volute is).
I think this is all something that can be calculated, maybe even with an online engineering site like efunda?
With high flow and low discharge head, much of success or failure will be involved with the art of design and fabrication skill of the builder. Tip leakage at the rim/volute or a sharp turn into the throttle body could cost all of the gains.
It looks like George is leading on the math...



-----Original Message-----
From: George Lendich <lendich@aanet.com.au>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Feb 11, 2010 5:43 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Air Pump

Ernest, 
A quick check of my calculations suggest that 170 MPH should be good up to our RPM requirements. So if your wrong we are both wrong. My figures are based on a 44 mm PP and the inlet speed in well below that, however I note the smaller diameter speeds get up to over 200 mph at 7,500 rpm. I can't remember how your configured. 
George ( down under) 
 
> Ed Anderson wrote: 
>> 
>> The way a turbo/super charger works, of course, is not by increasing the >> air volume flow through the engine but by increasing the air density. The >> 100,000 rpm impeller accelerates the air velocity inside the compressor >> vanes and then using the old Diffuser principal, slows this air down at >> the compressor exit and converts the increased dynamic energy of the >> accelerated air stream into a static pressure increase reflecting the >> increased air density produced. 
>> 
>> 
> And the turbo charger is a centrifugal pump. 8*) One of a comparatively > small diameter, but high speed. I'm looking at a much larger diameter, > but a much slower speed. Diameter and speed are what determines the > maximum static pressure. How well the pump can hold that pressure is > determined by its flow rate, which is in turn determined by the volume of > the pump. I calculated that the air would flow at 170mph, with the intake > and exits being 3" diameter. Not exact numbers, but the speed point is > higher than my projected cruise speed, and the intake diameter is smaller > than the runner I'll actually have. I have a relatively large volume > between the flywheel and PSRU plate, being about 4" thick. All that > scribbling is at home someplace, and I'd be hard pressed to find it. > Basically, I'm counting on that thickness to overwhelm the engines needs > and keep the pressure near the max static. 

> I do admit that I'm remiss in not applying the technical rigor to carry > out the equations to the 4th digit. You and Al are good at that, Ed, but > I am content to run some rough numbers. I figure the practical won't > match the theoretical anyway. So if it looks good at first pass, build it > and then take a measurement. 
> I think this would be a good move if I can get 5 to 10 extra horses out of > it. On the other side of the equation, I'm looking at what are the > drawbacks (other than the design/build workload, which is supposed to be > the fun part anyway). Failure modes, other than shedding blades, should > be benign or non-existent, as I'm not providing for any control hardware. > If the flywheel stops turning, the intake can suck air around the > blades...but that is a moot point, because if the flywheel stops the > engine is about done sucking air for a while anyhow. A leak in the intake > means that I don't get as much boost as I hoped. In that case I'm just > another normally aspirated rotary. The worst case scenario would be the > highly unlikely event that I get TO MUCH boost. That will prove out easily > enough during testing, and would only require some sort of restriction to > rectify. 

> There may be up to twenty Hp waiting there, and it'll only cost about 3 to > 5lbs of aluminum. If it works, I'll have one of the coolest, most unique > engines at the fly-in, with one of the highest Hp/weight ratios around. > If it doesn't work, I get to wear the "I tried something that didn't work" > badge that makes one a true Flyrotarian. ;*) 


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