X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bw0-f222.google.com ([209.85.218.222] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3.2) with ESMTP id 4120596 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:53:41 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.222; envelope-from=lehanover@gmail.com Received: by bwz22 with SMTP id 22so734310bwz.5 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:53:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=8h5Xk6CZdnmvTR5u6ZSQTMUuk+33MH0UVa9m6xV+ihI=; b=XI2VICIINXnZ6kr8pOmnlgac+nzPb5BPXtsNzMCjwVR88/H2GBx6vNp8ledbtEugiN ivzT+BRxCU4uGzPwY+KFnQK+JSLGJycwaMzPEN1511W2v4GR+dbBAUuZyS+nC2FpG5RQ Fk0BSq9zavj68cpTTdQitdvIgpVtywJOSnO9I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=bHxfidnfKxOsxyZiwAL+44rubWHhpDkcpJcZf29rWPURmPLge4p2Vyd2IPCeGtDPPL ML/5OivCXIvHVZdPDHoAOgG8zjjaFTpxyTJ2YbFODSOVDQclC0F537MKW5MRnpIg8xT7 jd39I9ohUMo9RMRMzKI3u3Ws1HOP736TLo5Xg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.36.207 with SMTP id u15mr847102bkd.187.1265871183923; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:53:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:53:03 -0500 Message-ID: <1ab24f411002102253q1ff6fdabg6b73e6b5826677f2@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Oil cooling From: Lynn Hanover To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032555a9063fcab9047f4d9a13 --00032555a9063fcab9047f4d9a13 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Lynn, I have no idea what a homogenizing muffler is. Explanation? *The homoginizing muffler is a big can tight against the engine, with the short tubes for headers. A large diameter tube through the end of the can has hundreds of holes for the gasses to escape into the tube, then out of the muffler and into the down pipe. Next to the engine it must be very strong and made of Incolnel or Stainless to stay together. The header pipes have no tuned length, and back pressure may cost HP. The can dumps lots of heat under the cowl.* ** Since I'm not modifying the port timing, changing to earlier rotors with counter weights, I think the thing to do is to turbo it. *Early rotors would be lower compression than the Renesis rotors at 10:1. So turbocharging would be less a problem. Use 3MM apex seals in ceramic. The Renesis rotors have tapered side seals (I am told) Never seen one myself. The apex seals and grooves are short as they never cross a port opening. Both intake and exhaust ports are in the irons.* I like your idea of a huge compressor with no waste gate. A few pounds of boost with a large volume. Seems Mazdatrix has abandoned the turbos for a supercharger that does just that. 6 lbs of boost with the low end model and 12 lbs for the bigger. Any idea who makes a turbo like that? Or a supercharger that is small and will hold up to continuous use? *My thinking is that a poorly thought out turbo installation can produce low boost * *for several reasons.* *One would be a compressor wheel too large. Another would be the turbine wheel too small.* ** *Fine. So it only makes 3 pounds or 6 pounds close to sea level, and 1 or 2 pounds at 8,000 feet. Perfect.* *No muffler, or very little muffling required. No waste gate required. Lycoming sea level HP at 8,000 feet where the Lycoming has only 117-145 HP. By by Lycoming powered friends* ** *Superchargers can have very long lives. Big GM 2 cycle diesels have the big 671 superchargers bolted tight to the blocks on millions of engines, running for billions of hours around the world. * Lynn, My water at 185 f and oil at 205 f was at WOT at 8000ft, prop at 2450 and engine at 6980RPM. Yeah, the oil is high. I may be having the situation that Tracy spoke of. Back pressure inside the cowl due to the radiator having less restriction than the oil cooler. At high speed, the cowl flaps don't help. Better than it was though. When I back off on the throttle, it drops fast, although I don't remember how much. *That oil temp is costing you HP. With better cooling you might need more prop. How nice. You can tell you are close on rejection rate when the temp comes down with a bit less throttle. I use 3 40 row Setrab coolers and that is not enough on a scalding hot day. The driver just short shifts to bring the temps down. Like shifting at 9,200 RPM instead of 9,600 RPM. Then if you are back under 180 you can do a lap shifting at 9,600 again with no problem. * ** *If the oil temp goes over 200 and just stays there or only comes down after a number of minutes at a lower throttle setting, then you are not close, on rejection rate and must make a change. OIl temps above 160 are costing HP. * ** *Lynn E. Hanover * --00032555a9063fcab9047f4d9a13 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Lynn,=A0 I have no idea what a homogenizing muffler is.=A0 Explanation= ?=A0
=A0
=A0
The homoginizing muffler is a big can tight against the eng= ine, with the short tubes for headers. A large diameter tube through the en= d of the can has hundreds of holes for the gasses to escape into the tube, = then out of the muffler and into the down pipe.=A0Next to the engine it mus= t be very strong and made of Incolnel or Stainless to stay together. The he= ader pipes have no tuned length, and back pressure may cost HP. The can dum= ps lots of heat under the cowl.
=A0
=A0
Since I'm not modifying the port timing, changing to earlie= r rotors with
counter weights, I think the thing to do is to turbo it.= =A0
=A0
Early rotors would be lower compression than the Renesis ro= tors at 10:1. So turbocharging would be less a problem. Use 3MM apex seals = in ceramic. The Renesis rotors have tapered side seals (I am told) Never se= en one myself. The apex seals and grooves are short as they never cross a p= ort opening. Both intake and exhaust ports are in the irons.
=A0
=A0
=A0I like your
idea of a huge compressor with no waste gate.=A0 A = few pounds of boost
with a large volume.=A0 Seems Mazdatrix has abandon= ed the turbos for a
supercharger that does just that.=A0 6 lbs of boost= with the low end model
and 12 lbs for the bigger.=A0 Any idea who makes a turbo like that? Or a supercharger that is small and will hold up to continuous use?
=A0
My thinking is that a poorly thought out turbo installation= can produce low boost=A0
for several reasons.
One would be a compressor wheel too large. Another would be= the turbine wheel too small.
=A0
Fine. So it only makes 3 pounds or 6 pounds close to sea le= vel, and 1 or 2 pounds at 8,000 feet. Perfect.
No muffler, or very little muffling required. No waste gate= required. Lycoming sea level HP at 8,000 feet where the Lycoming has only = 117-145 HP. By by Lycoming powered friends
=A0
Superchargers can have very long lives. Big GM 2 cycle dies= els have the big 671 superchargers bolted tight to the blocks on millions o= f engines, running for billions of hours around the world.=A0<= /div>
=A0

Lynn,=A0 My water at 185 f and oil at 205 f was at WOT at 8000ft, = prop at
2450 and engine at 6980RPM.=A0 Yeah, the oil is high.=A0 I may = be having the
situation that Tracy spoke of.=A0 Back pressure inside th= e cowl due to the
radiator having less restriction than the oil cooler.=A0 At high speed, the cowl flaps don't help.=A0 Better than it was though.=A0 When I bac= k off
on the throttle, it drops fast, although I don't remember how= much.
=A0
That oil temp is costing you HP. With better cooling you mi= ght need more prop. How nice. You can tell you are close on rejection rate = when the temp comes down with a bit less throttle. I use=A03 40 row Setrab = coolers and that is not enough on a scalding hot day. The driver just short= shifts to bring the temps down. Like shifting at 9,200 RPM instead of 9,60= 0 RPM. Then if you are back under 180 you can do a lap shifting at 9,600 ag= ain with no problem.
=A0
If the oil temp goes over 200 and just stays there or only = comes down after a number of minutes at a lower throttle setting, then you = are not close, on rejection rate and must make a change. OIl temps above 16= 0 are costing HP.
=A0
Lynn E. Hanover
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