X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.16] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4027912 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:10:06 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.30.16; envelope-from=gregw@onestopdesign.biz Received: from OMTA20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.87]) by QMTA01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id JhoM1d0091smiN4A1i9FkK; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:09:15 +0000 Received: from gregiv ([24.6.75.252]) by OMTA20.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Ji901d0045ScAtC8gi93VW; Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:09:06 +0000 Message-ID: <12CD91E85E394E6C8747A9B518F58254@yosemite.onestopdesign.biz> From: "Greg Ward" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:14:42 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0DC3_01CA7FCA.EA127540" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0DC3_01CA7FCA.EA127540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, should have included the motor mount shots in there too, there = are 3 more places where things are secured. The intercooler mounts = there also, as well as to the front of the redrive, not shown in these = shots. This is just a mock-up prior to going onto the dyno, and we = won't have the redrive mounted for those tests, too much wear and tear. Greg Ward Lancair 20B N178RG in Progress ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rogers, Bob J.=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 1:15 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) Greg, =20 It looks like the entire weight of your turbo, intercooler, wastegate, = and all associated tubing is being supported by the exhaust flanges = attached to the rotary exhaust ports. If there is no other support for = these items, you should expect the exhaust pipes to break at the flanges = in short order. =20 Bob Rogers N62BT Mustang II with 13B Turbo =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Greg Ward Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 1:23 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) =20 Basically, with the heat factor, vibration, and not knowing exactly = how long it would take before 321 breaks down, it's just something else = to go wrong. We are coming straight out of the turbo to the exterior, = not much room to play. So we are looking at alternatives.=20 Greg Ward Lancair 20B N178RG in Progress =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jeff Whaley=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 5:05 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) =20 Greg, did this exhaust guy elaborate on why it might not be a good = idea? Why can=92t we move the heat muff further from engine to where temps = are similar to Lycoming =96 use flex-stainless tubing for ducting? Jeff =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Greg Ward Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:32 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) =20 Hey Mark; We've been looking at the same things with our install. We talked = to our exhaust guy, and he feels that with the exhaust temps that these = rotaries have, that it might not be a good idea, (the muff). Next step = was hot water, plumbing, and a heater core inside some where, which was = sort of a negative idea. We kept all of our cooling lines exterior, so = that a coolant leak wouldn't happen inside at about 10K feet, and 200+ = knots, not a good scenario. J.C. Whitney has a small electric heater = that has some possibilities, so we are looking into that and some other = ideas. Greg Ward Lancair 20B N178RG in Progress ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 1:41 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) =20 Jeff, I'm considering going to a heat muff since there is sooooooo much = exhaust heat that's just going to waste. I was going to incorporate it = into the heat shield of my newest muffler design. Of course, I'll need = to add a CO detector in the cabin for safety. =20 Mark On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Jeff Whaley = wrote: Well with 3 coolers already, I didn=92t want to add a heater core = and all the plumbing =96 I may move my scavenge point from oil cooler to = water radiator as it is below the engine (uphill for warm air) and = closer to the firewall (fewer corners to turn). I picked the oil cooler = because at the time my oil temp was higher than water temp =96 now = it=92s the other way around =85 also the outlet of oil cooler as = installed is less likely to get contaminated with exhaust fumes. Jeff ------=_NextPart_000_0DC3_01CA7FCA.EA127540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, should have = included the=20 motor mount shots in there too, there are 3 more places where things are = secured.  The intercooler mounts there also, as well as to the = front of the=20 redrive, not shown in these shots.  This is just a mock-up prior to = going=20 onto the dyno, and we won't have the redrive mounted for those tests, = too much=20 wear and tear.

Greg=20 Ward

Lancair=20 20B N178RG in Progress

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rogers, = Bob J.=20
Sent: Thursday, December 17, = 2009 1:15=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin = Heat (Was=20 Oil Cooler)

Greg,

 

It looks = like the=20 entire weight of your turbo, intercooler, wastegate, and all = associated tubing=20 is being supported by the exhaust flanges attached to the rotary = exhaust=20 ports.  If there is no = other=20 support for these items, you should expect the exhaust pipes to break = at the=20 flanges in short order.

 

Bob=20 Rogers

N62BT

Mustang II = with 13B=20 Turbo

 

From: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg = Ward
Sent: Thursday, December 17, = 2009 1:23=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler)

 

Basically,=20 with the heat factor, vibration, and not knowing exactly how long it = would=20 take before 321 breaks down, it's just something else to go=20 wrong.  We are coming = straight out of=20 the turbo to the exterior, not much room to play.  So we are looking = at=20 alternatives. 

Greg=20 Ward

Lancair 20B=20 N178RG in Progress

 

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Jeff=20 Whaley

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Thursday, December 17, 2009 5:05 = AM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil=20 Cooler)

 

Greg, did this=20 exhaust guy elaborate on why it might not be a good=20 idea?

Why = can=92t we=20 move the heat muff further from engine to where temps are similar to = Lycoming =96 use flex-stainless tubing for=20 ducting?

Jeff

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Greg = Ward
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, = 2009 1:32=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil=20 Cooler)

 

Hey=20 Mark;

We've been=20 looking at the same things with our install.  We talked to our = exhaust=20 guy, and he feels that with the exhaust temps that these rotaries = have, that=20 it might not be a good idea, (the muff).  Next step was hot = water,=20 plumbing, and a heater core inside some where, which was sort of a = negative=20 idea.  We kept all of = our cooling=20 lines exterior, so that a coolant leak wouldn't happen inside at = about 10K=20 feet, and 200+ knots, not a good scenario.  J.C. Whitney has = a small=20 electric heater that has some possibilities, so we are looking into = that and=20 some other ideas.

Greg=20 Ward

Lancair 20B=20 N178RG in Progress

----- Original = Message -----=20

From: Mark = Steitle=20

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Tuesday, December 15, 2009 1:41 = PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Cabin Heat (Was Oil = Cooler)

 

Jeff,

I'm considering going to a = heat muff=20 since there is sooooooo much exhaust heat that's just going to=20 waste.  I was going to incorporate it into the heat shield of = my=20 newest muffler design.  Of course, I'll need to add a CO = detector in=20 the cabin for safety.

 

Mark

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Jeff = Whaley=20 <jwhaley@datacast.com>=20 wrote:

Well with 3 coolers = already, I=20 didn=92t want to add a heater core and all the plumbing =96 I may = move my=20 scavenge point from oil cooler to water radiator as it is below = the engine=20 (uphill for warm air) and closer to the firewall (fewer corners to = turn).=20 I picked the oil cooler because at the time my oil temp was higher = than=20 water temp =96 now it=92s the other way around =85 also the outlet = of oil cooler=20 as installed is less likely to get contaminated with exhaust=20 fumes.

Jeff

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