X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail1.fdic.gov ([167.176.16.5] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTPS id 4026426 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:16:33 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=167.176.16.5; envelope-from=brogers@fdic.gov X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA7F5E.1D32B9FC" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:15:51 -0600 Message-ID: <1F44A251F397E444B05E240B8688AB7905339DFB@DALEXC100P.PROD.FDIC.GOV> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) Thread-Index: Acp/TblNoGsSr5chQDu1N683AZlJJAAD99dA References: From: "Rogers, Bob J." To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Return-Path: BRogers@FDIC.gov X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Dec 2009 21:15:53.0881 (UTC) FILETIME=[1DE6F890:01CA7F5E] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA7F5E.1D32B9FC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, =20 It looks like the entire weight of your turbo, intercooler, wastegate, and all associated tubing is being supported by the exhaust flanges attached to the rotary exhaust ports. If there is no other support for these items, you should expect the exhaust pipes to break at the flanges in short order. =20 Bob Rogers N62BT Mustang II with 13B Turbo =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 1:23 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) =20 Basically, with the heat factor, vibration, and not knowing exactly how long it would take before 321 breaks down, it's just something else to go wrong. We are coming straight out of the turbo to the exterior, not much room to play. So we are looking at alternatives.=20 Greg Ward Lancair 20B N178RG in Progress =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jeff Whaley =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 5:05 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) =20 Greg, did this exhaust guy elaborate on why it might not be a good idea? Why can't we move the heat muff further from engine to where temps are similar to Lycoming - use flex-stainless tubing for ducting? Jeff =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:32 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) =20 Hey Mark; We've been looking at the same things with our install. We talked to our exhaust guy, and he feels that with the exhaust temps that these rotaries have, that it might not be a good idea, (the muff). Next step was hot water, plumbing, and a heater core inside some where, which was sort of a negative idea. We kept all of our cooling lines exterior, so that a coolant leak wouldn't happen inside at about 10K feet, and 200+ knots, not a good scenario. J.C. Whitney has a small electric heater that has some possibilities, so we are looking into that and some other ideas. Greg Ward Lancair 20B N178RG in Progress ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 1:41 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) =20 Jeff, I'm considering going to a heat muff since there is sooooooo much exhaust heat that's just going to waste. I was going to incorporate it into the heat shield of my newest muffler design. Of course, I'll need to add a CO detector in the cabin for safety. =20 Mark On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Jeff Whaley wrote: Well with 3 coolers already, I didn't want to add a heater core and all the plumbing - I may move my scavenge point from oil cooler to water radiator as it is below the engine (uphill for warm air) and closer to the firewall (fewer corners to turn). I picked the oil cooler because at the time my oil temp was higher than water temp - now it's the other way around ... also the outlet of oil cooler as installed is less likely to get contaminated with exhaust fumes. Jeff ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA7F5E.1D32B9FC Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greg,

 

It looks like the entire weight of = your turbo, intercooler, wastegate, and all associated tubing is being = supported by the exhaust flanges attached to the rotary exhaust ports.  If there is no other support = for these items, you should expect the exhaust pipes to break at the flanges in short = order.

 

Bob = Rogers

N62BT

Mustang II with 13B = Turbo

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward
Sent: Thursday, December = 17, 2009 1:23 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler)

 

Basically= , with the heat factor, vibration, and not knowing exactly how long it would = take before 321 breaks down, it's just something else to go = wrong.  We are coming straight out of the turbo to the exterior, = not much room to play.  So we are looking at alternatives. 

Greg = Ward

Lancair = 20B N178RG in Progress

 

----- Original Message ----- =

Sent: = Thursday, December 17, 2009 5:05 AM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler)

 

Greg, did = this exhaust guy elaborate on why it might not be a good = idea?

Why = can’t we move the heat muff further from engine to where temps are similar to Lycoming = – use flex-stainless tubing for ducting?

Jeff

 <= /o:p>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward
Sent: Wednesday, December = 16, 2009 1:32 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler)

 

Hey = Mark;

We've = been looking at the same things with our install.  We talked to our exhaust guy, and he feels that with the = exhaust temps that these rotaries have, that it might not be a good idea, (the = muff).  Next step was hot water, plumbing, and a heater core inside = some where, which was sort of a negative idea.  We kept all of our cooling lines exterior, so that a = coolant leak wouldn't happen inside at about 10K feet, and 200+ knots, not a good = scenario.  J.C. Whitney has a small electric heater that has some = possibilities, so we are looking into that and some other = ideas.

Greg = Ward

Lancair = 20B N178RG in Progress

----- Original Message ----- =

Sent: = Tuesday, December 15, 2009 1:41 PM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler)

 

Jeff,

I'm considering going to a heat muff since there is = sooooooo much exhaust heat that's just going to waste.  I was going to = incorporate it into the heat shield of my newest muffler design.  Of course, = I'll need to add a CO detector in the cabin for = safety.

 

Mark

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com> = wrote:

Well with 3 coolers already, I didn’t want to add a = heater core and all the plumbing – I may move my scavenge point from oil = cooler to water radiator as it is below the engine (uphill for warm air) and closer to = the firewall (fewer corners to turn). I picked the oil cooler because at the = time my oil temp was higher than water temp – now it’s the other = way around … also the outlet of oil cooler as installed is less likely to get contaminated = with exhaust fumes.

Jeff

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