X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4024738 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:27:34 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=759FaHEEKXgA:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=DMg2HGTbeQpgXEWzh9UA:9 a=B1oFHXw21RSe6ekA4LsA:7 a=dyfJK2f74ugBXV_E8KUtGLGu26wA:4 a=1vhyWl4Y8LcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=8Rosx8wUik4O01ix:21 a=mOPS7lnqxKNCE5M8:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=7rx8_PibElez8L2fgW4A:9 a=d9o5PEYZf3OfITKiPIAA:7 a=CYVCofPFO34Ds-ONcFrf6WF9F9gA:4 a=7aqRr38DS-edD300:21 a=Yo78YhTYPopyDrK1:21 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 75.191.186.236 Received: from [75.191.186.236] ([75.191.186.236:3280] helo=computername) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id AD/3D-01470-2E8892B4; Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:26:59 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" Message-ID: To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: one Valve? [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 20:27:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01CA7E8E.1F2ED860" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Acp+sT63YUYJHv+FTF6buQI4C379VwABcJ8A X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CA7E8E.1F2ED860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a small oil cooler core and one of those inexpensive Pie pan blowers as my heating system. Back over 15 years ago when I designed it, I put a shut off valve in case should there ever be a leak. A few years later (it takes a while) it dawn on me that you need two shut off valves or a shut off and a no-back-flow (check value) value. The reason is, of course, the coolant can come in through either the input or outgo lines as the coolant system is under pressure. It is probably under a bit more pressure or less depending on where you take it from and return it to in your coolant system. But, unless you put the return line into the top of your header tank (or someplace where there is normally air), a leak in your coolant system is going to leak if you only have one shut off valve. I believe you really need two shut offs OR one capable of shutting off both lines. FWIW Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 7:43 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) Hey Al; I have had that same suggestion made to me, but to make sure there is a valve, readily accessible to shut it off if it leaks, makes sense. G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Al Gietzen To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:32 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler) Hey Mark; We've been looking at the same things with our install. We talked to our exhaust guy, and he feels that with the exhaust temps that these rotaries have, that it might not be a good idea, (the muff). Next step was hot water, plumbing, and a heater core inside some where, which was sort of a negative idea. We kept all of our cooling lines exterior, so that a coolant leak wouldn't happen inside at about 10K feet, and 200+ knots, not a good scenario. J.C. Whitney has a small electric heater that has some possibilities, so we are looking into that and some other ideas. Greg Ward Greg; Having studied that option in the past; I'd suggest you save your time - unless you want to add another alternator. For effective heating you're going to need more than 1000 watts. For a 14 volt system that's over 70+ amps. I don't consider it a risk to run some relatively small diameter, high quality, heater hose (5/8") into the cabin to a small heater core. I have a 7" x 7" heater core, and it puts out at least 1500 watts, or more. See Mcmaster-Carr silicone hose, part #5296K12. Pressure test your system each annual to about 35 psi. Al G __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CA7E8E.1F2ED860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

I have a small oil cooler core and = one of those inexpensive Pie pan blowers as my heating system.  Back over = 15 years ago when I designed it, I put a shut off valve in case should there ever be = a leak.

 

A few years later (it takes a = while)  it dawn on me that you need two shut off valves  or a shut off and a = no-back-flow (check value)  value.  The reason is, of course, the coolant = can come in through either the input or outgo lines as the coolant system is under = pressure.  It is probably under a bit more pressure or less depending on where you = take it from and return it to in your coolant system.  But, unless you put = the return line into the top of your header tank (or someplace  where there is = normally air), a leak in your coolant system is going to leak if you only have = one shut off valve.  I believe you really need two shut offs  OR one = capable of shutting off both lines.

 

FWIW

 

Ed

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward
Sent: Wednesday, December = 16, 2009 7:43 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler)

 

Hey = Al;

I have = had that same suggestion made to me, but to make sure there is a valve, readily accessible to shut it off if it leaks, makes = sense.

G.=

----- Original Message ----- =

From: Al = Gietzen

Sent: = Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:25 AM

Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler)

 

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Greg Ward
Sent: Wednesday, December = 16, 2009 10:32 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Cabin Heat (Was Oil Cooler)

 

Hey Mark;

We've been looking at the same things with our = install.  We talked to our exhaust guy, and he feels that with the exhaust temps that = these rotaries have, that it might not be a good idea, (the muff).  Next = step was hot water, plumbing, and a heater core inside some where, which was = sort of a negative idea.  We kept all of our cooling lines exterior, so = that a coolant leak wouldn't happen inside at about 10K feet, and 200+ knots, = not a good scenario.  J.C. Whitney has a small electric heater that has = some possibilities, so we are looking into that and some other = ideas.

Greg Ward=

Greg;

=

 

Having studied that option in the = past; I’d suggest you save your time – unless you want to add = another alternator.  For effective heating you’re going to need more = than 1000 watts.  For a 14 volt system that’s over 70+ = amps.

 

I don’t consider it a risk = to run some relatively small diameter, high quality, heater hose (5/8”) into = the cabin to a small heater core.  I have a 7” x 7” heater core, and = it puts out at least 1500 watts, or more. See Mcmaster-Carr silicone hose, part = #5296K12.  Pressure test your system each annual to about 35 = psi.

 

Al G

 

 



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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