X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from EXHUB003-4.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.111] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTPS id 4021631 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:00:22 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.5.74.111; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from EXVMBX003-5.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.45]) by EXHUB003-4.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.111]) with mapi; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:59:45 -0800 From: Jeff Whaley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:00:52 -0800 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler Thread-Index: Acp9kwe7dfCMBPTWSZq9qBuz4jPNIgABCnWA Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0153A4A0FE35EXVMBX0035e_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0153A4A0FE35EXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, I can't find any specs on the Fluidyne coolers but they are in the sa= me class as the one you have - I bought mine new through Summit Racing. Jeff From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:29 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler Jeff, Do you know the pressure limitations of your coolers? Mark On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Jeff Whaley > wrote: Mark, I have two of the DB-30416, single-pass coolers ... no measureable pr= essure drop with 2 in series ... I'm seeing 80 psi max with the 13B. JWW From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:36 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler Al, I have the Therm-Hx All-Pro 600 2-pass cooler, p/n DB-30617, as shown on ht= tp://www.fluidyne.com/pl_theoc.html#Therm-Hx%20Engine%20Oil%20Coolers%20DB-= 30716,%20DB-30617,%20DB-30417. I've attached a picture of it. It is the o= ne on the right. You can see how flat the tanks are. The material is very= thick, but I can't get inside to measure it. My guess is .090" - .125". = Strange that this hasn't been a problem for other customers. Like I said b= efore, I suspect that someone before me over pressurized it during proof te= sting. But that's just a hunch. There's a BTU chart on that page, but no pressure drop chart. Since I'm re= ading 90psi at the engine oil filter adapter plate, it doesn't seem like I'= ve got a problem with pressure drop. But then I haven't measured oil pressu= re as it exits the oil pump either. Thanks for the design tips. Mark S. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Al Gietzen > wrote: Mark; Before buying a new one of the same design, you may want to be sure it is d= esigned to handle he pressure. If the tank has flat surfaces, even just a = few inches across, it needs to be about 1/8" thick if it is aluminum. I speced my custom design aluminum cooler (built by Griffin) for 125 psi. = I pressure tested it to 140. The oil pressure on my 20B will get t0 90+ wh= en cold, and runs 70-80 when hot; and you want some margin, especially sinc= e aluminum is subject to fatigue when cycled - and it is cycled every time = you start your engine and shut it down. You might also like to check if they have any pressure drop data. Off-the-s= helf coolers are generally designed for flow rates typical of piston engine= s, typically about half of our engines. I recall looking at some data on a= Fluidyne cooler I was considering, and the pressure drop was very high for= flow up to about 16 gpm. If yours was designed for single pass, and modif= ied for double pass, it could be twice as bad. Just some things to check. Al G -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler Lynn, There's a third possibility that I hadn't considered until I looked at the = cooler again tonight after work. It is evident that the cooler was pressur= ized to the point that the tank warped causing the divider to pull away fro= m the core (not welded where it meets the core). This allowed the oil to g= o in and right back out again. The tubes look fine, but the center of both= tanks where there is no support, is ballooned outward. I'm debating on whether to send it back to Fluidyne for inspection & repair= , or to bite the bullet and order a new one (assuming that this size is sti= ll available). This one is definitely repairable, but not sure I'd feel co= mfortable flying behind it afterwards. I also need to ask Gary what the working pressure is for the Fluidyne coole= rs. I'm wondering if I may have damaged this cooler with 90 psi oil pressu= re without realizing it? Mark On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Lynn Hanover > wrote: Stephen, I called Fluidyne today and spoke with Gary, the owner. While the cooler i= s not under warranty, they are willing to look at it and determine if it ca= n be repaired. I'll send it off and see what they say. Mark There should be evidence of a TIG bead half way around the end tank near th= e center. Either its there or it isn't. If not and both fittings are in the= same end, it is the problem....... Lynn E. Hanover --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0153A4A0FE35EXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mark, I can’t find any specs on the Fluidyne coolers b= ut they are in the same class as the one you have – I bought mine new through= Summit Racing.

Jeff

 

From: Rotary motors= in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Stei= tle
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 9:29 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler

 

Jeff,

 

Do you know the pressure limitations of your coolers?<= o:p>

 

Mark

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:53 AM, Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com> wrote:

Mark, I have two of the DB-30416, single-pass coolers … no measureable pressure drop with 2 in series &= #8230; I’m seeing 80 psi max with the 13B.

JWW

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:36 AM


To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler

 

Al,

 

I have the Therm-Hx All-Pro 600 2-pass cooler, p/n DB-30617, as shown on http://www.fluidyne.com/pl_theoc.html#Therm-Hx%20Engine%2= 0Oil%20Coolers%20DB-30716,%20DB-30617,%20DB-30417.  I've attached a picture of it.  It is the one on the right.  You = can see how flat the tanks are.  The material is very thick, but I ca= n't get inside to measure it.  My guess is .090" - .125".  Strange that this hasn't been a problem for other customers.  Like I s= aid before, I suspect that someone before me over pressurized it during proof testing.  But that's just a hunch.

 

There's a BTU chart on that page, but no pressure drop chart.  Since I'm readi= ng 90psi at the engine oil filter adapter plate, it doesn't seem like I've got= a problem with pressure drop. But then I haven't measured oil pressure as it exits the oil pump either.

 

Thanks for the design tips.

 

Mark S.



 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net= > wrote:

Mark;

 

Before buying a new one of the same d= esign, you may want to be sure it is designed to handle he pressure.  If the = tank has flat surfaces, even just a few inches across, it needs to be about 1/8&= #8221; thick if it is aluminum.

 

I speced my custom design aluminum co= oler (built by Griffin) for 125 psi.  I pressure tested it to 140.  Th= e oil pressure on my 20B will get t0 90+ when cold, and runs 70-80 when hot; = and you want some margin, especially since aluminum is subject to fatigue when cycled – and it is cycled every time you start your engine and shut i= t down.

 

You might also like to check if they = have any pressure drop data. Off-the-shelf coolers are generally designed for fl= ow rates typical of piston engines, typically about half of our engines. = I recall looking at some data on a Fluidyne cooler I was considering, and the pressure drop was very high for flow up to about 16 gpm.  If yours was designed for single pass, and modified for double pass, it could be twice a= s bad.

 

Just some things to check.

 

Al G

 

 

-----Original Message---= --
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lan= caironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:35 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler

 

Lynn,

 

There's a third possibility that I hadn't considered unti= l I looked at the cooler again tonight after work.  It is evident that the cooler was pressurized to the point that the tank warped causing the divide= r to pull away from the core (not welded where it meets the core).  This allowed the oil to go in and right back out again.  The tube= s look fine, but the center of both tanks where there is no support, is ballooned outward. 

 

I'm debating on whether to send it back to Fluidyne = for inspection & repair, or to bite the bullet and order a n= ew one (assuming that this size is still available).  This one is definit= ely repairable, but not sure I'd feel comfortable flying behind it afterwards.&= nbsp;

 

I also need to ask Gary what the working pressure is for = the Fluidyne coolers.  I'm wondering if I may have damaged this cooler wit= h 90 psi oil pressure without realizing it?   

 

Mark

 

 

 

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