X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com ([74.6.114.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with SMTP id 4021537 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 09:30:17 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.114.45; envelope-from=admin@haaspowerair.com Received: (qmail 87009 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Dec 2009 14:29:42 -0000 Message-ID: <306263.84535.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: MdYifZEVM1mYi2OfI1jACQC9YzcfD4vynvvC89KXgDsgaTn3hmE21aEdu3E.1.7ohXwRwRstAmA2IdimjR3AiJqgWuVXYflVjAj6erSgyeY_FH5NZBdvapvG23Zn74xkjShJsVuMejOD0ku8.Xm7tjMqBIUrzQZ2WOtnhOLdcLLOdHElKLQS6S1W3EjAL37uyWJfMhKO6GTdMtdxIe5aqaHH2849Usw4NsGakkC2NrV9AqYjdyCkY_4TQ02TJQpRJAx._FaPqtJQ_SJz9SQxyB62ro80XwTPBMLd6x6pqu4lYOBvgvaBO6wvQTIoTWMqfKeHwmmcCX93DZTASXKlYraq9ekJWMqRDU.dSVFSwaarJnlxpz_KkwPgDlVfXpRfKYNgNNj_EpLJVpg8xIPrVWmDXheYI6tII5UP5VfImBevcsaUMin_ZY6t8cdJloOGpuuzteomq6e.a7XjehJsn.DBjlfVi1Az6cM5YqOf16OS56hZUzANTDIbThJ3Z8E- Received: from [75.174.166.58] by web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:29:41 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/9.0.19 YahooMailWebService/0.7.361.4 Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:29:41 -0800 (PST) From: stephen haas Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-583949480-1260887381=:84535" --0-583949480-1260887381=:84535 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your statement of "beware of Ebay" is the most pertinent in this thread so = far. In all my years of racing and 100's if not 1000's of hours on the dyno= I can say I have NEVER reused an oil cooler, oil lines or remote filter ho= using from any motor that sustained a bearing or any other kind of failure = that put particles of metal in suspension... You can clean till the cows co= me home and there still will be junk entrapped somewhere in those contamina= ted parts. If someone had a failure the first place they are going to try t= o recover that cost is to sell stuff on Ebay and the end buyer is getting a= part that could/ will ruin the next motor it goes on......... Just my humb= le opinion ya know. =C2=A0 Ben. --- On Tue, 12/15/09, Mark Steitle wrote: From: Mark Steitle Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 6:14 AM Bill,=20 =C2=A0 I seriously doubt that I have a restriction in the line.=C2=A0 These are al= l -8 braided SS hoses.=C2=A0 The oil filter is before the oil/air exchanger= .=C2=A0 The adapter block (and pressure sensor) is located after the oil/ai= r exchanger.=C2=A0 The replacement cooler (Modine)=C2=A0is similar in desig= n to the Fluidyne except that the tanks are rounded where the Fluidyne's ar= e flat.=C2=A0 So they=C2=A0are inherently stronger.=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 It seem very unlikely that the -8 hose could flow more oil, even at 90psi, = than the Fluidyne cooler could handle.=C2=A0 This thing is 3" thick.=C2=A0 = The core=C2=A0half-section=C2=A0is 5.5" x 3".=C2=A0 My guess is that it was= like this when I bought it and I didn't=C2=A0notice the=C2=A0deformation i= n the tanks.=C2=A0 It was probably over pressurized by someone trying to pr= essure test it.=C2=A0 But that is just a guess.=C2=A0 Beware of buying on E= bay! =C2=A0 On a side note, it has dawned on me that=C2=A0since all of the oil was bypa= ssing the core of the oil/air exchanger, then all of the oil cooling load h= as been handled soley by the=C2=A0oil/water exchanger that I installed as a= secondary cooler.=C2=A0 With a little tweaking, I may not even need an oil= /air exchanger at all.=C2=A0 We'll have to=C2=A0wait and see on that until = I have time to explore all the possibilities. =C2=A0 Mark S.=C2=A0 On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Bill Bradburry = wrote: Mark,=20 Where are you reading oil pressure?=C2=A0 Can you rig some way to read it b= etween the pump and the cooler?=C2=A0 Look that replacement cooler over car= efully and check it for changes as you run the engine or fly for a while.= =C2=A0 It doesn=E2=80=99t seem reasonable to me that the cooler would blow = up on only 90 psi.=C2=A0 Could you have a restriction in the line somewhere= ?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bill B =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 8:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler Lynn,=20 =C2=A0 There's a third possibility that I hadn't considered until I looked at the = cooler again tonight after work.=C2=A0 It is evident that the cooler was pr= essurized to the point that the tank warped causing the divider to pull awa= y from the core (not welded where it meets the core).=C2=A0 This=C2=A0allow= ed the oil to go in and right back out again.=C2=A0 The tubes look fine, bu= t the center of=C2=A0both tanks where there is no support, is ballooned out= ward.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 I'm debating on whether to send it back=C2=A0to Fluidyne for inspection & r= epair, or=C2=A0to bite the bullet and=C2=A0order=C2=A0a new one (assuming t= hat this size is still available).=C2=A0 This one is definitely repairable,= but not sure I'd feel comfortable flying behind it afterwards.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 I also need to ask Gary what the working pressure is for the Fluidyne coole= rs.=C2=A0 I'm wondering if I may have damaged this cooler with 90 psi oil p= ressure without realizing it?=C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 Mark On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Lynn Hanover wrote: Stephen, =C2=A0 I called Fluidyne today and spoke with Gary, the owner.=C2=A0 While the coo= ler is not under warranty, they are willing to look at it and determine if = it can be repaired.=C2=A0 I'll send it off and see what they say.=C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 Mark There should be evidence of a TIG bead half way around the end tank near th= e center. Either its there or it isn't. If not and both fittings are in the= same end, it is the problem....... =C2=A0 Lynn E. Hanover =C2=A0 --0-583949480-1260887381=:84535 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Your statement of "beware of Ebay" is th= e most pertinent in this thread so far. In all my years of racing and 100's= if not 1000's of hours on the dyno I can say I have NEVER reused an oil co= oler, oil lines or remote filter housing from any motor that sustained a be= aring or any other kind of failure that put particles of metal in suspensio= n... You can clean till the cows come home and there still will be junk ent= rapped somewhere in those contaminated parts. If someone had a failure the = first place they are going to try to recover that cost is to sell stuff on = Ebay and the end buyer is getting a part that could/ will ruin the next mot= or it goes on......... Just my humble opinion ya know.
 
Ben.

--- On Tue, 12/15/09, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmai= l.com> wrote:

From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
= Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 6:14 A= M

Bill,
 
I seriously doubt that I have a restriction in the line.  These a= re all -8 braided SS hoses.  The oil filter is before the oil/air exch= anger.  The adapter block (and pressure sensor) is located after the o= il/air exchanger.  The replacement cooler (Modine) is similar in = design to the Fluidyne except that the tanks are rounded where the Fluidyne= 's are flat.  So they are inherently stronger.  
 
It seem very unlikely that the -8 hose could flow more oil, even at 90= psi, than the Fluidyne cooler could handle.  This thing is 3" thick.&n= bsp; The core half-section is 5.5" x 3".  My guess is that i= t was like this when I bought it and I didn't notice the deformat= ion in the tanks.  It was probably over pressurized by someone trying = to pressure test it.  But that is just a guess.  Beware of buying= on Ebay!
 
On a side note, it has dawned on me that since all of the oil was= bypassing the core of the oil/air exchanger, then all of the oil cooling l= oad has been handled soley by the oil/water exchanger that I installed= as a secondary cooler.  With a little tweaking, I may not even need a= n oil/air exchanger at all.  We'll have to wait and see on that u= ntil I have time to explore all the possibilities.
 
Mark S. 

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Bill Bradburry <= SPAN dir=3Dltr><bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wrote:=

Mark,

Where are you reading oil pressure?  Can you rig som= e way to read it between the pump and the cooler?  Look that replaceme= nt cooler over carefully and check it for changes as you run the engine or = fly for a while.  It doesn=E2=80=99t seem reasonable to me that the co= oler would blow up on only 90 psi.  Could you have a restriction in th= e line somewhere? 

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 8:35 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler=

Lynn,

 

There's a third possibility that I hadn't considered unti= l I looked at the cooler again tonight after work.  It is evident that= the cooler was pressurized to the point that the tank warped causing the d= ivider to pull away from the core (not welded where it meets the core).&nbs= p; This allowed the oil to go in and right back out again.  The t= ubes look fine, but the center of both tanks where there is no support= , is ballooned outward. 

 

I'm debating on whether to send it back to Fluidyne = for inspection & repair, or to bite the bullet and order = ;a new one (assuming that this size is still available).  This one is = definitely repairable, but not sure I'd feel comfortable flying behind it a= fterwards. 

 

I also need to ask Gary what the working pressure is for = the Fluidyne coolers.  I'm wondering if I may have damaged this cooler= with 90 psi oil pressure without realizing it?    =

 

Mark

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Lynn Hanover <lehanover= @gmail.com> wrote:

Stephen,

 

I called Fluidyne today and spoke with Gary, the owner.&n= bsp; While the cooler is not under warranty, they are willing to look at it= and determine if it can be repaired.  I'll send it off and see what t= hey say. 

 

Mark

There should be evidence of a TIG bead half way around th= e end tank near the center. Either its there or it isn't. If not and both f= ittings are in the same end, it is the problem.......

 

Lynn E. Hanover

 

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