X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from EXHUB003-4.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.111] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTPS id 4021489 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:52:56 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.5.74.111; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from EXVMBX003-5.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.45]) by EXHUB003-4.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.111]) with mapi; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:52:19 -0800 From: Jeff Whaley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:53:25 -0800 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler Thread-Index: Acp9i68KN8rVchZyRPuTgTh98fXkCgAAPoOw Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0153A4A0FD76EXVMBX0035e_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0153A4A0FD76EXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, I have two of the DB-30416, single-pass coolers ... no measureable pr= essure drop with 2 in series ... I'm seeing 80 psi max with the 13B. JWW From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:36 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler Al, I have the Therm-Hx All-Pro 600 2-pass cooler, p/n DB-30617, as shown on ht= tp://www.fluidyne.com/pl_theoc.html#Therm-Hx%20Engine%20Oil%20Coolers%20DB-= 30716,%20DB-30617,%20DB-30417. I've attached a picture of it. It is the o= ne on the right. You can see how flat the tanks are. The material is very= thick, but I can't get inside to measure it. My guess is .090" - .125". = Strange that this hasn't been a problem for other customers. Like I said b= efore, I suspect that someone before me over pressurized it during proof te= sting. But that's just a hunch. There's a BTU chart on that page, but no pressure drop chart. Since I'm re= ading 90psi at the engine oil filter adapter plate, it doesn't seem like I'= ve got a problem with pressure drop. But then I haven't measured oil pressu= re as it exits the oil pump either. Thanks for the design tips. Mark S. On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Al Gietzen > wrote: Mark; Before buying a new one of the same design, you may want to be sure it is d= esigned to handle he pressure. If the tank has flat surfaces, even just a = few inches across, it needs to be about 1/8" thick if it is aluminum. I speced my custom design aluminum cooler (built by Griffin) for 125 psi. = I pressure tested it to 140. The oil pressure on my 20B will get t0 90+ wh= en cold, and runs 70-80 when hot; and you want some margin, especially sinc= e aluminum is subject to fatigue when cycled - and it is cycled every time = you start your engine and shut it down. You might also like to check if they have any pressure drop data. Off-the-s= helf coolers are generally designed for flow rates typical of piston engine= s, typically about half of our engines. I recall looking at some data on a= Fluidyne cooler I was considering, and the pressure drop was very high for= flow up to about 16 gpm. If yours was designed for single pass, and modif= ied for double pass, it could be twice as bad. Just some things to check. Al G -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler Lynn, There's a third possibility that I hadn't considered until I looked at the = cooler again tonight after work. It is evident that the cooler was pressur= ized to the point that the tank warped causing the divider to pull away fro= m the core (not welded where it meets the core). This allowed the oil to g= o in and right back out again. The tubes look fine, but the center of both= tanks where there is no support, is ballooned outward. I'm debating on whether to send it back to Fluidyne for inspection & repair= , or to bite the bullet and order a new one (assuming that this size is sti= ll available). This one is definitely repairable, but not sure I'd feel co= mfortable flying behind it afterwards. I also need to ask Gary what the working pressure is for the Fluidyne coole= rs. I'm wondering if I may have damaged this cooler with 90 psi oil pressu= re without realizing it? Mark On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Lynn Hanover > wrote: Stephen, I called Fluidyne today and spoke with Gary, the owner. While the cooler i= s not under warranty, they are willing to look at it and determine if it ca= n be repaired. I'll send it off and see what they say. Mark There should be evidence of a TIG bead half way around the end tank near th= e center. Either its there or it isn't. If not and both fittings are in the= same end, it is the problem....... Lynn E. Hanover --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0E0153A4A0FD76EXVMBX0035e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mark, I have two of the DB-30416, single-pass coolers …= ; no measureable pressure drop with 2 in series … I’m seeing 80 psi = max with the 13B.

JWW

 

From: Rotary motors= in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Stei= tle
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:36 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler

 

Al,

 

 

There's a BTU chart on that page, but no pressure drop chart.  Since I'm reading 90psi at the engine oil filter adapter plate= , it doesn't seem like I've got a problem with pressure drop. But then I haven't measured oil pressure as it exits the oil pump either.

 

Thanks for the design tips.

 

Mark S.



 

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

Ma= rk;

&n= bsp;

Be= fore buying a new one of the same design, you may want to be sure it is designed= to handle he pressure.  If the tank has flat surfaces, even just a few in= ches across, it needs to be about 1/8” thick if it is aluminum.

&n= bsp;

I = speced my custom design aluminum cooler (built by Griffin) for 125 psi.  I pressure tested it to 140.  The oil pressure on my 20B will get t0 90+ when cold, and runs 70-80 when hot; and you want some margin, especially si= nce aluminum is subject to fatigue when cycled – and it is cycled every t= ime you start your engine and shut it down.

&n= bsp;

Yo= u might also like to check if they have any pressure drop data. Off-the-shelf coolers are generally designed for flow rates typical of piston engines, typically about half of our engines.  I recall looking at some data on= a Fluidyne cooler I was considering, and the pressure drop was very high for = flow up to about 16 gpm.  If yours was designed for single pass, and modifi= ed for double pass, it could be twice as bad.

&n= bsp;

Ju= st some things to check.

&n= bsp;

Al= G

&n= bsp;

&n= bsp;

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lan= caironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:35 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler

 

Lynn,

 

There's a third possibility that I hadn't considered unti= l I looked at the cooler again tonight after work.  It is evident that the cooler was pressurized to the point that the tank warped causing the divide= r to pull away from the core (not welded where it meets the core).  This&nb= sp;allowed the oil to go in and right back out again.  The tubes look fine, but t= he center of both tanks where there is no support, is ballooned outward. 

 

I'm debating on whether to send it back to Fluidyne = for inspection & repair, or to bite the bullet and order a n= ew one (assuming that this size is still available).  This one is definit= ely repairable, but not sure I'd feel comfortable flying behind it afterwards. 

 

I also need to ask Gary what the working pressure is for = the Fluidyne coolers.  I'm wondering if I may have damaged this cooler wit= h 90 psi oil pressure without realizing it?   

 

Mark

 

 

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