X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao106.cox.net ([68.230.241.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4021102 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 01:55:12 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.40; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20091215065437.CAGD18268.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 01:54:37 -0500 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.136.150]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id HJud1d0023EsL8g03JudoD; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 01:54:37 -0500 X-VR-Score: 0.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=dPH3qklg8Vic3E1mcpSlAaa4ZLB04ixhaZIb8bf8Di4= c=1 sm=1 a=+xS8pRtGb5GgEi4xmYelzg==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=79fDk1y49Oysv3udgn0A:9 a=MVGGNyg7UR8SKr1T_KcA:7 a=IMo0TpVUI8ilUCw0N6ode-IbS00A:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=7Ti2jCYz5IGnT3gU:21 a=A-WuQI8crkkJFuDG:21 a=jjpIAXfVroySbtUNHxAA:9 a=qfgiuJnXKTozFngnihQA:7 a=4VAqdZVSOO_y2IyKT7N105CvmJ8A:4 a=+xS8pRtGb5GgEi4xmYelzg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 22:55:00 -0800 Message-ID: <92612560703144DBAB7E377CD59921A3@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01CA7D10.77306710" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6856 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: Acp9Jt6UFkkfX19qQeKKrY7G/ycaMQAKiYgg This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CA7D10.77306710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark; =20 Before buying a new one of the same design, you may want to be sure it = is designed to handle he pressure. If the tank has flat surfaces, even = just a few inches across, it needs to be about 1/8" thick if it is aluminum. =20 I speced my custom design aluminum cooler (built by Griffin) for 125 = psi. I pressure tested it to 140. The oil pressure on my 20B will get t0 90+ = when cold, and runs 70-80 when hot; and you want some margin, especially = since aluminum is subject to fatigue when cycled - and it is cycled every time = you start your engine and shut it down. =20 You might also like to check if they have any pressure drop data. Off-the-shelf coolers are generally designed for flow rates typical of piston engines, typically about half of our engines. I recall looking = at some data on a Fluidyne cooler I was considering, and the pressure drop = was very high for flow up to about 16 gpm. If yours was designed for single pass, and modified for double pass, it could be twice as bad. =20 Just some things to check. =20 Al G =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 5:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler =20 Lynn,=20 =20 There's a third possibility that I hadn't considered until I looked at = the cooler again tonight after work. It is evident that the cooler was pressurized to the point that the tank warped causing the divider to = pull away from the core (not welded where it meets the core). This allowed = the oil to go in and right back out again. The tubes look fine, but the = center of both tanks where there is no support, is ballooned outward. =20 =20 I'm debating on whether to send it back to Fluidyne for inspection & = repair, or to bite the bullet and order a new one (assuming that this size is = still available). This one is definitely repairable, but not sure I'd feel comfortable flying behind it afterwards. =20 =20 I also need to ask Gary what the working pressure is for the Fluidyne coolers. I'm wondering if I may have damaged this cooler with 90 psi = oil pressure without realizing it? =20 =20 Mark On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Lynn Hanover = wrote: Stephen, =20 I called Fluidyne today and spoke with Gary, the owner. While the = cooler is not under warranty, they are willing to look at it and determine if it = can be repaired. I'll send it off and see what they say. =20 =20 Mark There should be evidence of a TIG bead half way around the end tank near = the center. Either its there or it isn't. If not and both fittings are in = the same end, it is the problem....... =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CA7D10.77306710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mark;

 

Before buying a new one of the = same design, you = may want to be sure it is designed to handle he pressure.  If the tank has = flat surfaces, even just a few inches across, it needs to be about 1/8” = thick if it is aluminum.

 

I speced my custom design = aluminum cooler (built by Griffin<= /font>) for 125 psi.  I pressure tested it to 140.  The = oil pressure on my 20B will get t0 90+ when cold, and runs 70-80 when hot; = and you want some margin, especially since aluminum is subject to fatigue when = cycled – and it is cycled every time you start your engine and shut it = down.

 

You might also like to check if = they have any pressure drop data. Off-the-shelf coolers are generally = designed for flow rates typical of piston engines, typically about half of our engines.  I recall looking at some data on a Fluidyne cooler I was considering, and the pressure drop was very high for flow up to about 16 = gpm.  If yours was designed for single pass, and modified for double pass, it = could be twice as bad.

 

Just some things to = check.

 

Al G

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Monday, December = 14, 2009 5:35 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Oil cooler

 

Lynn,

 

There's a third possibility that I hadn't = considered until I looked at the cooler again tonight after work.  It is = evident that the cooler was pressurized to the point that the tank warped causing the divider to pull away from the core (not welded where it meets the = core).  This allowed the oil to go in and right back out again.  The = tubes look fine, but the center of both tanks where there is no support, = is ballooned outward. 

 

I'm debating on whether to send it = back to Fluidyne for inspection & repair, or to bite the bullet and order a new one (assuming that this size is still available).  This one is definitely repairable, but not sure I'd = feel comfortable flying behind it afterwards. 

 

I also need to ask Gary what the working = pressure is for the Fluidyne coolers.  I'm wondering if I may have damaged this = cooler with 90 psi oil pressure without realizing it?    =

 

Mark

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Lynn Hanover = <lehanover@gmail.com> = wrote:

Stephen,

 

I called Fluidyne today and spoke with Gary, = the owner.  While the cooler is not under warranty, they are willing to = look at it and determine if it can be repaired.  I'll send it off and = see what they say. 

 

Mark

There should be evidence of a TIG bead half = way around the end tank near the center. Either its there or it isn't. If not and = both fittings are in the same end, it is the problem.......

 

Lynn E. Hanover

 

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