X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bw0-f226.google.com ([209.85.218.226] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4020390 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:00:40 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.226; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by bwz26 with SMTP id 26so2609625bwz.27 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:00:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=f+0dbTWyZPUyZ8TffxLUTIqWqs8W7afiDS3xoEZwCe4=; b=IHPAzUCMjtIH/lkvhTp4cPFB3l5av8kb3LkibtbsulNaV64UZXxhOJ23GseVlykt2x ZxrZhGLmWLZlLhchzPPKUbV/ld8hHMRUvzzp6/UBd4m4AuzpNe+oiUkL0gc2fuRXkjoH UV6enUBC4V3MG8rM7ahVyppIKi1BZZyQOmV3k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=oWJjwvzF1LB22WjH+IegEsOzLitiYUuMCvGwEL6nOopMmQON4i44cdvgygZ2tcgp4A YtmQPiQfp2jZP1cX06ZS1nNUXpwkbE3BxulTyXJkqCkfakw872vyDJ3VkyfM0ppFnyIG y/vQdde6Hu4nJUTH3PaiiDg7ekDcItX2+38D8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.11.3 with SMTP id r3mr3125687bkr.107.1260828003563; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:00:03 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:00:03 -0600 Message-ID: <5cf132c0912141400s6cef643pf8a26ed473ae9ac0@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Cooling From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325557832467b14047ab765d7 --000325557832467b14047ab765d7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, Keep in mind that I have a 50% greater cooling requirement than a 13B. Mark On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 3:51 PM, George Lendich wrote= : > Mark/ Jeff, > I hadn't bothered to check the size before as the Mazda oil cooler is kno= wn > to be more than adequate. If your using over the Mazda size in cu" then y= our > over sized. Both your cooler areas are well over sized. I seen one chap u= sed > two Mazda coolers when taking off on water using NOs, but he admitted it = was > over cooling. > George ( down under) > > George, > > I'm not at the hangar today, but off the top of my head, they are about 4 > 1/2 x 18 x 2. I had considered using two RX-7 coolers arranged in a wedg= e > configuration. But I ended up going with a large rectangular unit which = I > chose because the air would not have to change directions to get through = the > core. Hopefully, that would provide lower cooling drag. > > Mark > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:50 PM, George Lendich wro= te: > >> Mark /Jeff, >> What is the Mazda cooler size., in comparison? >> George ( down under) >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Mark Steitle >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:34 AM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Cooling >> >> Jeff, >> >> I doubt an air lock is/was the problem as it was oriented with the >> inlet/outlet on the side. If there was an air lock, I would think that = at >> least part of the other end tank would get warm (which it doesn't). Goo= d >> suggestion though. >> >> This single cooler is almost twice the size as one of your coolers. So, >> it should be up to the task at hand. This is assuming that it is workin= g as >> designed. >> >> Mark >> >> On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Whaley wrot= e: >> >>> Hey Mark, I guess the only other logical reason would be an air-lock >>> caused by orientation =85 but if you=92ve got two exactly the same, tha= t is >>> highly unlikely. >>> >>> Incidentally, I have two, 6.25=94x11=942.75=94 oil coolers in series = =96 I=92m >>> over-cooled with 2 but found 1 wasn=92t enough. >>> >>> JWW >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = *On >>> Behalf Of *Mark Steitle >>> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2009 12:00 PM >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Oil Cooling >>> >>> >>> >>> Well guys, here is a new one... at least for me. >>> >>> >>> >>> I've never been able to get my 20B oil temps quite low enough for >>> comfort. I chaulked most of it up to the high Texas temps and an engin= e >>> that produces gobs of horsepower (just kidding on the "gobs of horsepow= er" >>> part). I'm running a 10" x 11" x 2 3/4" Fluidyne dual-pass oil/air coo= ler >>> and a large (and heavy) Fluidyne oil/water exchanger. Water temps were= fine >>> but the oil temps would reach 240*-245* on climb, and just barely down = to >>> 200* in cruise. I tried different plumbing arrangements, added a cowl = flap >>> (which helped some), etc. Still, the temps didn't want to come down. = Well, >>> yesterday I ran the engine with the cowl off (doing some fuel >>> pressure monitoring/adjusting), and I had just finished getting things = up >>> to operating temperature, verified that fuel pressure was good, and the= n >>> shut it down. I just happened to touch the end tank on the Fluidyne oi= l/air >>> exchanger and to my surprise, IT WAS STONE COLD! I touched the other e= nd >>> (inlet/outlet) and it was HOT! I thought this was odd. The only thing= that >>> I could figure is that the dual-pass oil cooler was defective. Since t= he >>> cooler has no thermostat, I can only conclude that the internal tank >>> separator, which is how they make a single-pass cooler into a dual-pass >>> cooler, was allowing the oil to bypass the core and go directly from th= e >>> inlet to the outlet. Well, no wonder I can't get the oil temps to come >>> down!!! >>> >>> >>> >>> I replaced the cooler with another unit I had on hand, ran the engine, >>> and low and behold, both end tanks come up to temp together. I did a c= ouple >>> of ground runs and themps look encouraging. But unfortunately, it was = too >>> late to do a test flight yesterday. I'm sure the new cooler will make = a big >>> improvement. I'm hoping it will be enough to permit me to remove the >>> oil/water exchanger. >>> >>> >>> >>> Moral of the story... DON'T TAKE ANYTHING FOR GRANTED! TRUST BUT >>> VERIFY!!! >>> >>> >>> >>> Mark S. >>> >>> Lancair ES/20B >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > --000325557832467b14047ab765d7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
George,
=A0
Keep in mind that I have a 50% greater cooling requirement than a 13B.=
Mark
On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 3:51 PM, George Lendich = <lendich@aanet= .com.au> wrote:
=A0Mark/ Jeff,
I hadn't bothered to check the siz= e before as the Mazda oil cooler is known to be more than adequate. If your= using over=A0the Mazda=A0size in cu"=A0then your over sized. Both you= r cooler areas are well over sized. I seen one chap used two Mazda coolers = when taking off on water using NOs, but he admitted it was over cooling.
George ( down under)
George,
=A0
I'm not at the hangar today, but off the top of my head, they are = about 4 1/2=A0x 18 x 2.=A0 I had considered using two RX-7 coolers arranged= in a wedge configuration.=A0 But I=A0ended up=A0going with a=A0large recta= ngular unit which I chose because the air would not have to=A0change direct= ions=A0to get through the core.=A0 Hopefully, that would provide lower cool= ing drag.=A0=A0
=A0
Mark

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:50 PM, George Lendich = <lendich@aanet.com.au> wrote:
Mark /Jeff,
What is the Mazda cooler size., in com= parison?
George ( down under)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:3= 4 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Cooling=

Jeff,
=A0
I doubt an air lock is/was the problem as it was oriented with the inl= et/outlet=A0on the side.=A0 If there was an air lock, I would think that at= least part of the other end tank would get warm (which it doesn't).=A0= Good suggestion though.=A0
=A0
This single cooler is almost twice the size as one of your coolers.=A0= So, it should be up to the task at hand.=A0 This is assuming that it is wo= rking as designed.
=A0
Mark=A0=A0=A0

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com> wrote:

Hey = Mark, I guess the only other logical reason would be an air-lock caused by = orientation =85 but if you=92ve got two exactly the same, that is highly un= likely.

Inci= dentally, I have two, 6.25=94x11=942.75=94 oil coolers in series =96 I=92m = over-cooled with 2 but found 1 wasn=92t enough.

JWW<= /span>

=A0

From:<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancair= online.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:00 PM
To: Rotary motors= in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil Cooling

=A0

Well guys, here is a new one... at least for me.=A0 =

=A0

I've never been able to get my 20B=A0oil temps q= uite low enough=A0for comfort.=A0 I=A0chaulked=A0most=A0of it up to the hig= h Texas temps and an engine that produces gobs of horsepower (just kidding = on the "gobs of horsepower" part).=A0=A0I'm running a 10"= ; x 11" x 2 3/4"=A0Fluidyne dual-pass oil/air cooler and a large = (and heavy)=A0Fluidyne oil/water exchanger.=A0 Water temps were fine but=A0= the oil temps would reach 240*-245* on climb, and just barely down to 200* = in cruise.=A0 I tried different plumbing arrangements, added a cowl flap (w= hich helped some), etc.=A0 Still, the temps didn't want to come down.= =A0=A0Well, yesterday=A0I ran the engine with the cowl off (doing some fuel= pressure=A0monitoring/adjusting), and I had just finished getting things u= p to=A0operating temperature, verified that fuel pressure was good,=A0and t= hen shut it down.=A0 I=A0just happened to touch the end tank on the Fluidyn= e=A0oil/air exchanger and to my surprise, IT WAS STONE COLD!=A0 I touched t= he other end (inlet/outlet) and it was=A0HOT!=A0=A0I thought this was=A0odd= .=A0 The only thing that I could figure is that the dual-pass oil cooler wa= s defective.=A0 Since the cooler has no thermostat, I can only conclude tha= t the internal tank separator, which is=A0how they make=A0a single-pass coo= ler=A0into a dual-pass cooler,=A0was=A0allowing the oil to=A0bypass the cor= e and=A0go directly from=A0the inlet to the outlet.=A0 Well, no wonder I ca= n't get the=A0oil temps to come down!!!=A0=A0

=A0

I replaced the cooler with another unit=A0I had on h= and, ran the engine, and=A0low and behold, both end tanks=A0come up to temp= =A0together.=A0 I did a couple of ground runs and themps look encouraging.= =A0=A0But unfortunately,=A0it was too late to=A0do a test flight yesterday.= =A0 I'm sure the new cooler=A0will=A0make a big improvement.=A0I'm = hoping=A0it will be enough to permit me to remove the oil/water exchanger.= =A0=A0

=A0

Moral of the story... DON'T TAKE ANYTHING FOR GR= ANTED!=A0 TRUST BUT VERIFY!!!

=A0

Mark S.

Lancair ES/20B

=A0

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0

=



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