X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4020378 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:53:19 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0040173935 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:52:37 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id E0661BEC040 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:51:43 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <2DD4527B481647C6A2CBC4A48795B91B@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Cooling Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:51:44 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CA7D5B.724E4AF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 091214-1, 12/14/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CA7D5B.724E4AF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark/ Jeff, I hadn't bothered to check the size before as the Mazda oil cooler is = known to be more than adequate. If your using over the Mazda size in cu" = then your over sized. Both your cooler areas are well over sized. I seen = one chap used two Mazda coolers when taking off on water using NOs, but = he admitted it was over cooling. George ( down under) George,=20 I'm not at the hangar today, but off the top of my head, they are = about 4 1/2 x 18 x 2. I had considered using two RX-7 coolers arranged = in a wedge configuration. But I ended up going with a large rectangular = unit which I chose because the air would not have to change directions = to get through the core. Hopefully, that would provide lower cooling = drag. =20 Mark On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:50 PM, George Lendich = wrote: Mark /Jeff, What is the Mazda cooler size., in comparison? George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:34 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Cooling Jeff, I doubt an air lock is/was the problem as it was oriented with the = inlet/outlet on the side. If there was an air lock, I would think that = at least part of the other end tank would get warm (which it doesn't). = Good suggestion though. =20 This single cooler is almost twice the size as one of your = coolers. So, it should be up to the task at hand. This is assuming = that it is working as designed. Mark =20 On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Whaley = wrote: Hey Mark, I guess the only other logical reason would be an = air-lock caused by orientation =85 but if you=92ve got two exactly the = same, that is highly unlikely. Incidentally, I have two, 6.25=94x11=942.75=94 oil coolers in = series =96 I=92m over-cooled with 2 but found 1 wasn=92t enough. JWW From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:00 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil Cooling Well guys, here is a new one... at least for me. =20 I've never been able to get my 20B oil temps quite low enough = for comfort. I chaulked most of it up to the high Texas temps and an = engine that produces gobs of horsepower (just kidding on the "gobs of = horsepower" part). I'm running a 10" x 11" x 2 3/4" Fluidyne dual-pass = oil/air cooler and a large (and heavy) Fluidyne oil/water exchanger. = Water temps were fine but the oil temps would reach 240*-245* on climb, = and just barely down to 200* in cruise. I tried different plumbing = arrangements, added a cowl flap (which helped some), etc. Still, the = temps didn't want to come down. Well, yesterday I ran the engine with = the cowl off (doing some fuel pressure monitoring/adjusting), and I had = just finished getting things up to operating temperature, verified that = fuel pressure was good, and then shut it down. I just happened to touch = the end tank on the Fluidyne oil/air exchanger and to my surprise, IT = WAS STONE COLD! I touched the other end (inlet/outlet) and it was HOT! = I thought this was odd. The only thing that I could figure is that the = dual-pass oil cooler was defective. Since the cooler has no thermostat, = I can only conclude that the internal tank separator, which is how they = make a single-pass cooler into a dual-pass cooler, was allowing the oil = to bypass the core and go directly from the inlet to the outlet. Well, = no wonder I can't get the oil temps to come down!!! =20 I replaced the cooler with another unit I had on hand, ran the = engine, and low and behold, both end tanks come up to temp together. I = did a couple of ground runs and themps look encouraging. But = unfortunately, it was too late to do a test flight yesterday. I'm sure = the new cooler will make a big improvement. I'm hoping it will be enough = to permit me to remove the oil/water exchanger. =20 Moral of the story... DON'T TAKE ANYTHING FOR GRANTED! TRUST = BUT VERIFY!!! Mark S. Lancair ES/20B =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CA7D5B.724E4AF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Mark/ Jeff,
I hadn't bothered to check the size = before as the=20 Mazda oil cooler is known to be more than adequate. If your using = over the=20 Mazda size in cu" then your over sized. Both your cooler areas = are=20 well over sized. I seen one chap used two Mazda coolers when taking off = on water=20 using NOs, but he admitted it was over cooling.
George ( down under)
George,
 
I'm not at the hangar today, but off the top of my head, they are = about 4=20 1/2 x 18 x 2.  I had considered using two RX-7 coolers = arranged in a=20 wedge configuration.  But I ended up going with = a large=20 rectangular unit which I chose because the air would not have = to change=20 directions to get through the core.  Hopefully, that would = provide=20 lower cooling drag.  
 
Mark

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:50 PM, George = Lendich <lendich@aanet.com.au> = wrote:
Mark /Jeff,
What is the Mazda cooler size., in=20 comparison?
George ( down under)
----- Original Message ----- =
From: = Mark Steitle
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, = 2009 3:34=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Oil=20 Cooling

Jeff,
 
I doubt an air lock is/was the problem as it was oriented = with the=20 inlet/outlet on the side.  If there was an air lock, I = would=20 think that at least part of the other end tank would get warm = (which it=20 doesn't).  Good suggestion though. 
 
This single cooler is almost twice the size as one of your=20 coolers.  So, it should be up to the task at hand.  This = is=20 assuming that it is working as designed.
 
Mark   

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Jeff = Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com> wrote:

Hey=20 Mark, I guess the only other logical reason would be an air-lock = caused=20 by orientation =85 but if you=92ve got two exactly the same, = that is highly=20 unlikely.

Incidentally, I have = two,=20 6.25=94x11=942.75=94 oil coolers in series =96 I=92m over-cooled = with 2 but found=20 1 wasn=92t enough.

JWW

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Mark=20 Steitle
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:00 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil=20 Cooling

 

Well guys, here is a new one... at least = for=20 me. 

 

I've never been able to get my 20B oil = temps=20 quite low enough for comfort. =20 I chaulked most of it up to the high Texas temps = and an=20 engine that produces gobs of horsepower (just kidding on the = "gobs of=20 horsepower" part).  I'm running a 10" x 11" x 2=20 3/4" Fluidyne dual-pass oil/air cooler and a large (and=20 heavy) Fluidyne oil/water exchanger.  Water temps were = fine=20 but the oil temps would reach 240*-245* on climb, and just = barely=20 down to 200* in cruise.  I tried different plumbing = arrangements,=20 added a cowl flap (which helped some), etc.  Still, the = temps=20 didn't want to come down.  Well, yesterday I ran = the=20 engine with the cowl off (doing some fuel=20 pressure monitoring/adjusting), and I had just finished = getting=20 things up to operating temperature, verified that fuel = pressure was=20 good, and then shut it down.  I just happened to = touch=20 the end tank on the Fluidyne oil/air exchanger and to my = surprise,=20 IT WAS STONE COLD!  I touched the other end (inlet/outlet) = and it=20 was HOT!  I thought this was odd.  The = only=20 thing that I could figure is that the dual-pass oil cooler was=20 defective.  Since the cooler has no thermostat, I can only = conclude=20 that the internal tank separator, which is how they = make a=20 single-pass cooler into a dual-pass = cooler, was allowing=20 the oil to bypass the core and go directly = from the inlet=20 to the outlet.  Well, no wonder I can't get the oil = temps to=20 come down!!!  

 

I replaced the cooler with another = unit I had on=20 hand, ran the engine, and low and behold, both end = tanks come=20 up to temp together.  I did a couple of ground runs = and themps=20 look encouraging.  But unfortunately, it was too = late=20 to do a test flight yesterday.  I'm sure the new=20 cooler will make a big improvement. I'm = hoping it=20 will be enough to permit me to remove the oil/water=20 exchanger.  

 

Moral of the story... DON'T TAKE ANYTHING = FOR=20 GRANTED!  TRUST BUT VERIFY!!!

 

Mark S.

Lancair ES/20B

 

      



------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CA7D5B.724E4AF0--