X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bw0-f226.google.com ([209.85.218.226] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4020180 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:03:51 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.226; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by bwz26 with SMTP id 26so2517319bwz.27 for ; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:03:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=RQfnG0ABgw0QZNFjDjDeBj7XvWZ/KIarIenaR2fsXOo=; b=nqBW0RaQ/U+Yt3x7hQ1mp8tsMrQrLFWs635O4MMHJFspHUrI4ngy1NzlbpAUp/+Xj6 P6sy5LbK11p2mKFcTC5ji41nk9bIVo/RGyqAY1WQDkp8su4xfi70NEhioZIg1eKS5gi9 Vya/dsEky7ey2jXIYrSyuFcggW1EIDmXScvyw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=M9nasrIkSUK1LhaUqxXhhWs1sBkzRmyKLuPD2kuVC+HRcbjePoPzVfwwccUNIM51so 2wzCdg/aI1ozvTyWpBVYt2kwdA6PwSF6CKJ3CsE1BhSBSRQjlQSKB8g4c0j7W8XxOrRC e3gmPdWS2UWvm1gmzXGi7RLGEZIqd2TAVxmY4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.24.71 with SMTP id u7mr388030bkb.35.1260820993841; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 12:03:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:03:13 -0600 Message-ID: <5cf132c0912141203q2cf485c3m7b5672c1816a8173@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Cooling From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000325554fda769bde047ab5c3ef --000325554fda769bde047ab5c3ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable George, I'm not at the hangar today, but off the top of my head, they are about 4 1/2 x 18 x 2. I had considered using two RX-7 coolers arranged in a wedge configuration. But I ended up going with a large rectangular unit which I chose because the air would not have to change directions to get through th= e core. Hopefully, that would provide lower cooling drag. Mark On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:50 PM, George Lendich wrote= : > Mark /Jeff, > What is the Mazda cooler size., in comparison? > George ( down under) > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mark Steitle > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:34 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Cooling > > Jeff, > > I doubt an air lock is/was the problem as it was oriented with the > inlet/outlet on the side. If there was an air lock, I would think that a= t > least part of the other end tank would get warm (which it doesn't). Good > suggestion though. > > This single cooler is almost twice the size as one of your coolers. So, = it > should be up to the task at hand. This is assuming that it is working as > designed. > > Mark > > On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Whaley wrote= : > >> Hey Mark, I guess the only other logical reason would be an air-lock >> caused by orientation =85 but if you=92ve got two exactly the same, that= is >> highly unlikely. >> >> Incidentally, I have two, 6.25=94x11=942.75=94 oil coolers in series =96= I=92m >> over-cooled with 2 but found 1 wasn=92t enough. >> >> JWW >> >> >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *= On >> Behalf Of *Mark Steitle >> *Sent:* Monday, December 14, 2009 12:00 PM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Oil Cooling >> >> >> >> Well guys, here is a new one... at least for me. >> >> >> >> I've never been able to get my 20B oil temps quite low enough for >> comfort. I chaulked most of it up to the high Texas temps and an engine >> that produces gobs of horsepower (just kidding on the "gobs of horsepowe= r" >> part). I'm running a 10" x 11" x 2 3/4" Fluidyne dual-pass oil/air cool= er >> and a large (and heavy) Fluidyne oil/water exchanger. Water temps were = fine >> but the oil temps would reach 240*-245* on climb, and just barely down t= o >> 200* in cruise. I tried different plumbing arrangements, added a cowl f= lap >> (which helped some), etc. Still, the temps didn't want to come down. W= ell, >> yesterday I ran the engine with the cowl off (doing some fuel >> pressure monitoring/adjusting), and I had just finished getting things u= p >> to operating temperature, verified that fuel pressure was good, and then >> shut it down. I just happened to touch the end tank on the Fluidyne oil= /air >> exchanger and to my surprise, IT WAS STONE COLD! I touched the other en= d >> (inlet/outlet) and it was HOT! I thought this was odd. The only thing = that >> I could figure is that the dual-pass oil cooler was defective. Since th= e >> cooler has no thermostat, I can only conclude that the internal tank >> separator, which is how they make a single-pass cooler into a dual-pass >> cooler, was allowing the oil to bypass the core and go directly from the >> inlet to the outlet. Well, no wonder I can't get the oil temps to come >> down!!! >> >> >> >> I replaced the cooler with another unit I had on hand, ran the engine, >> and low and behold, both end tanks come up to temp together. I did a co= uple >> of ground runs and themps look encouraging. But unfortunately, it was t= oo >> late to do a test flight yesterday. I'm sure the new cooler will make a= big >> improvement. I'm hoping it will be enough to permit me to remove the >> oil/water exchanger. >> >> >> >> Moral of the story... DON'T TAKE ANYTHING FOR GRANTED! TRUST BUT >> VERIFY!!! >> >> >> >> Mark S. >> >> Lancair ES/20B >> >> >> >> >> > > --000325554fda769bde047ab5c3ef Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
George,
=A0
I'm not at the hangar today, but off the top of my head, they are = about 4 1/2=A0x 18 x 2.=A0 I had considered using two RX-7 coolers arranged= in a wedge configuration.=A0 But I=A0ended up=A0going with a=A0large recta= ngular unit which I chose because the air would not have to=A0change direct= ions=A0to get through the core.=A0 Hopefully, that would provide lower cool= ing drag.=A0=A0
=A0
Mark

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 1:50 PM, George Lendich = <lendich@aanet= .com.au> wrote:
Mark /Jeff,
What is the Mazda cooler size., in com= parison?
George ( down under)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:3= 4 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Cooling=

Jeff,
=A0
I doubt an air lock is/was the problem as it was oriented with the inl= et/outlet=A0on the side.=A0 If there was an air lock, I would think that at= least part of the other end tank would get warm (which it doesn't).=A0= Good suggestion though.=A0
=A0
This single cooler is almost twice the size as one of your coolers.=A0= So, it should be up to the task at hand.=A0 This is assuming that it is wo= rking as designed.
=A0
Mark=A0=A0=A0

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com> wrote:

Hey = Mark, I guess the only other logical reason would be an air-lock caused by = orientation =85 but if you=92ve got two exactly the same, that is highly un= likely.

Inci= dentally, I have two, 6.25=94x11=942.75=94 oil coolers in series =96 I=92m = over-cooled with 2 but found 1 wasn=92t enough.

JWW<= /span>

=A0

From:<= span style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancair= online.net] On Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:00 PM
To: Rotary motors= in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil Cooling

=A0

Well guys, here is a new one... at least for me.=A0 =

=A0

I've never been able to get my 20B=A0oil temps q= uite low enough=A0for comfort.=A0 I=A0chaulked=A0most=A0of it up to the hig= h Texas temps and an engine that produces gobs of horsepower (just kidding = on the "gobs of horsepower" part).=A0=A0I'm running a 10"= ; x 11" x 2 3/4"=A0Fluidyne dual-pass oil/air cooler and a large = (and heavy)=A0Fluidyne oil/water exchanger.=A0 Water temps were fine but=A0= the oil temps would reach 240*-245* on climb, and just barely down to 200* = in cruise.=A0 I tried different plumbing arrangements, added a cowl flap (w= hich helped some), etc.=A0 Still, the temps didn't want to come down.= =A0=A0Well, yesterday=A0I ran the engine with the cowl off (doing some fuel= pressure=A0monitoring/adjusting), and I had just finished getting things u= p to=A0operating temperature, verified that fuel pressure was good,=A0and t= hen shut it down.=A0 I=A0just happened to touch the end tank on the Fluidyn= e=A0oil/air exchanger and to my surprise, IT WAS STONE COLD!=A0 I touched t= he other end (inlet/outlet) and it was=A0HOT!=A0=A0I thought this was=A0odd= .=A0 The only thing that I could figure is that the dual-pass oil cooler wa= s defective.=A0 Since the cooler has no thermostat, I can only conclude tha= t the internal tank separator, which is=A0how they make=A0a single-pass coo= ler=A0into a dual-pass cooler,=A0was=A0allowing the oil to=A0bypass the cor= e and=A0go directly from=A0the inlet to the outlet.=A0 Well, no wonder I ca= n't get the=A0oil temps to come down!!!=A0=A0

=A0

I replaced the cooler with another unit=A0I had on h= and, ran the engine, and=A0low and behold, both end tanks=A0come up to temp= =A0together.=A0 I did a couple of ground runs and themps look encouraging.= =A0=A0But unfortunately,=A0it was too late to=A0do a test flight yesterday.= =A0 I'm sure the new cooler=A0will=A0make a big improvement.=A0I'm = hoping=A0it will be enough to permit me to remove the oil/water exchanger.= =A0=A0

=A0

Moral of the story... DON'T TAKE ANYTHING FOR GR= ANTED!=A0 TRUST BUT VERIFY!!!

=A0

Mark S.

Lancair ES/20B

=A0

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0

=


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