X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c3) with ESMTP id 4020150 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Dec 2009 14:51:05 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 430DE1736C5 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:50:25 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 0930ABEC006 for ; Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:50:23 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Cooling Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:50:24 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01CA7D4A.7ED153A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 091214-0, 12/14/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CA7D4A.7ED153A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark /Jeff, What is the Mazda cooler size., in comparison? George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:34 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Cooling Jeff, I doubt an air lock is/was the problem as it was oriented with the = inlet/outlet on the side. If there was an air lock, I would think that = at least part of the other end tank would get warm (which it doesn't). = Good suggestion though. =20 This single cooler is almost twice the size as one of your coolers. = So, it should be up to the task at hand. This is assuming that it is = working as designed. Mark =20 On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Whaley = wrote: Hey Mark, I guess the only other logical reason would be an air-lock = caused by orientation =85 but if you=92ve got two exactly the same, that = is highly unlikely. Incidentally, I have two, 6.25=94x11=942.75=94 oil coolers in series = =96 I=92m over-cooled with 2 but found 1 wasn=92t enough. JWW From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Mark Steitle Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:00 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil Cooling Well guys, here is a new one... at least for me. =20 I've never been able to get my 20B oil temps quite low enough for = comfort. I chaulked most of it up to the high Texas temps and an engine = that produces gobs of horsepower (just kidding on the "gobs of = horsepower" part). I'm running a 10" x 11" x 2 3/4" Fluidyne dual-pass = oil/air cooler and a large (and heavy) Fluidyne oil/water exchanger. = Water temps were fine but the oil temps would reach 240*-245* on climb, = and just barely down to 200* in cruise. I tried different plumbing = arrangements, added a cowl flap (which helped some), etc. Still, the = temps didn't want to come down. Well, yesterday I ran the engine with = the cowl off (doing some fuel pressure monitoring/adjusting), and I had = just finished getting things up to operating temperature, verified that = fuel pressure was good, and then shut it down. I just happened to touch = the end tank on the Fluidyne oil/air exchanger and to my surprise, IT = WAS STONE COLD! I touched the other end (inlet/outlet) and it was HOT! = I thought this was odd. The only thing that I could figure is that the = dual-pass oil cooler was defective. Since the cooler has no thermostat, = I can only conclude that the internal tank separator, which is how they = make a single-pass cooler into a dual-pass cooler, was allowing the oil = to bypass the core and go directly from the inlet to the outlet. Well, = no wonder I can't get the oil temps to come down!!! =20 I replaced the cooler with another unit I had on hand, ran the = engine, and low and behold, both end tanks come up to temp together. I = did a couple of ground runs and themps look encouraging. But = unfortunately, it was too late to do a test flight yesterday. I'm sure = the new cooler will make a big improvement. I'm hoping it will be enough = to permit me to remove the oil/water exchanger. =20 Moral of the story... DON'T TAKE ANYTHING FOR GRANTED! TRUST BUT = VERIFY!!! Mark S. Lancair ES/20B =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01CA7D4A.7ED153A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark /Jeff,
What is the Mazda cooler size., in=20 comparison?
George ( down under)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, = 2009 3:34=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil=20 Cooling

Jeff,
 
I doubt an air lock is/was the problem as it was oriented with = the=20 inlet/outlet on the side.  If there was an air lock, I would = think=20 that at least part of the other end tank would get warm (which it=20 doesn't).  Good suggestion though. 
 
This single cooler is almost twice the size as one of your = coolers. =20 So, it should be up to the task at hand.  This is assuming that = it is=20 working as designed.
 
Mark   

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Jeff Whaley = <jwhaley@datacast.com> = wrote:

Hey Mark, I=20 guess the only other logical reason would be an air-lock caused by=20 orientation =85 but if you=92ve got two exactly the same, that is = highly=20 unlikely.

Incidentally, I have two,=20 6.25=94x11=942.75=94 oil coolers in series =96 I=92m over-cooled = with 2 but found 1=20 wasn=92t enough.

JWW

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Mark=20 Steitle
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 12:00 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil=20 Cooling

 

Well guys, here is a new one... at least for = me. =20

 

I've never been able to get my 20B oil = temps quite=20 low enough for comfort.  I chaulked most of = it up=20 to the high Texas temps and an engine that produces gobs of = horsepower (just=20 kidding on the "gobs of horsepower" part).  I'm running a = 10" x=20 11" x 2 3/4" Fluidyne dual-pass oil/air cooler and a large (and = heavy) Fluidyne oil/water exchanger.  Water temps were = fine=20 but the oil temps would reach 240*-245* on climb, and just = barely down=20 to 200* in cruise.  I tried different plumbing arrangements, = added a=20 cowl flap (which helped some), etc.  Still, the temps didn't = want to=20 come down.  Well, yesterday I ran the engine with the = cowl=20 off (doing some fuel pressure monitoring/adjusting), and I had = just=20 finished getting things up to operating temperature, verified = that fuel=20 pressure was good, and then shut it down.  I just = happened to=20 touch the end tank on the Fluidyne oil/air exchanger and to my=20 surprise, IT WAS STONE COLD!  I touched the other end = (inlet/outlet)=20 and it was HOT!  I thought this was odd.  = The only=20 thing that I could figure is that the dual-pass oil cooler was=20 defective.  Since the cooler has no thermostat, I can only = conclude=20 that the internal tank separator, which is how they make a = single-pass cooler into a dual-pass = cooler, was allowing the=20 oil to bypass the core and go directly from the inlet = to the=20 outlet.  Well, no wonder I can't get the oil temps to come = down!!!  

 

I replaced the cooler with another unit I = had on=20 hand, ran the engine, and low and behold, both end = tanks come up=20 to temp together.  I did a couple of ground runs and = themps look=20 encouraging.  But unfortunately, it was too late = to do a=20 test flight yesterday.  I'm sure the new = cooler will make a=20 big improvement. I'm hoping it will be enough to permit me = to=20 remove the oil/water exchanger.  

 

Moral of the story... DON'T TAKE ANYTHING FOR=20 GRANTED!  TRUST BUT VERIFY!!!

 

Mark S.

Lancair ES/20B

 

      


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