X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qw-out-2122.google.com ([74.125.92.24] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c2) with ESMTP id 3985501 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:46:10 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.92.24; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by qw-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 9so982304qwb.25 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:45:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=aAUGRrdHyC6TLTO1LMVQVEieU6QkLppYovvV/7LzVKc=; b=qrdjEgJW/LG77qW5mZVW1ahCrRhAbQPO60xQRkDE01xXz9mYIQ1+8OTgxYiuTMroMz GoXZ+r28POZM3ANQ1zWsnZx+GM5tl8UoqGMDfIzPsDIl+mxSwG+Qzckp5ImDm2G1zFLh vuitpMQooWpooJggCvbgXUGfgd97AksEV1zeg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=X1InikKNZwOMzDM0hodXDYotpKnBoigTuAIBPWci01/7/Ri7S/VtKdyq4j2xsIlqfk uxhJ5bsJ9V3milZwQdBptzVibe/Jg2YO6dJno1ZEb+CuwaE1ne0iZhUtO8XffZ3C+X/m DfU+k5EwUyXiHRx+PFeRAkVPt8jcTK6DC7G/4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.41.135 with SMTP id o7mr1973008qae.29.1258904734209; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:45:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:45:34 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4916eb85790898ee Message-ID: <1b4b137c0911220745y52466d1t67804ca1d2aa83ad@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: No start From: Tracy Crook To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00148501f6527d186b0478f79914 --00148501f6527d186b0478f79914 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Steve wrote: Since it works using a separate battery to crank, I had kind of ruled out the CAS interference. I wouldn't rule it out yet. In at least one other case it was magnetic coupling of starter noise (from its cable) into the CAS input lines that caused the problem. So it can be physical routing of things that affects the problem, not just electrical noise on the power bus. Tracy On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Steve Brooks wrote: > Dave, > Since it works using a separate battery to crank, I had kind of ruled out > the CAS interference. I think that it is either interference from the > starter to the EC-2 from noise on the 12 VDC buss, or the voltage sag. The > power at the EC-2 drops to 10.6 volts while cranking. This doesn't seem too > bad to me, but something must be on the edge of operating. I have to order > some wire in order to power the rear buss from the forward battery, but I am > going to repeat my separate battery test today, just to make sure that works > consistently. > > Steve > > David Leonard wrote: > >> I think Steve is onto something here. If you run the starter off the >> other battery, it is likely to solve the problem reguardless of cause just >> like your test run with an external battery. >> With reguard to the actual cause, I tend to side with Tracy in that is >> more likely to be CAS interference rather than low voltage. I have left my >> master on for several hours. Enough that when the started turned (and it >> barely turned) the voltage dropped low enough to really dim the cocktpit >> lights and shut down the music radio, but the EC2 had enough juice to get >> the engine going. >> Good luck! >> >> -- >> David Leonard >> >> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >> http://RotaryRoster.net >> >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Steven W. Boese > SBoese@uwyo.edu>> wrote: >> >> Steve, >> >> I was able to produce symptoms similar to what you describe by >> inserting a 1.5 V flashlight battery into the CAS return wire such >> that the CAS end of the wire was 1.5 V more negative than the CAS >> return wire going to the EC2: >> CAS ----- battery ++++ EC2 >> >> The opposite polarity didn't cause problems. With the battery >> installed, there are one or two sparks when starting to turn the >> CAS and then no more sparks until the CAS sensor is turning >> significantly faster than would be the case when turning the >> engine with the starter. >> >> It seems that you may have the CAS return grounded in addition to >> the connection to the EC2. If this is the case, then the voltage >> drop from the starter current may shift the CAS return voltage >> similar to what I did with the test setup. If I disconnect the >> CAS from the EC2 at the EC2 connector, all the CAS wires show >> infinite resistance to ground. It might be useful to see if your >> wiring is similar. >> >> Steve Boese >> >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --00148501f6527d186b0478f79914 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve wrote:
Since it works using a separate battery to crank, I had kin= d of ruled out the CAS interference.

I wouldn't rule it out yet.=A0 In at = least one other case it was magnetic coupling of starter noise (from its ca= ble) into the CAS input lines that caused the problem.=A0 So it can be phys= ical routing of things that affects the problem, not just electrical noise = on the power bus.

Tracy

On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 7:48 A= M, Steve Brooks <cozy4pilot@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave,
Since it works using a separate battery to crank, I had kind of ruled out t= he CAS interference. =A0I think that it is either interference from the sta= rter to the EC-2 from noise on the 12 VDC buss, or the voltage sag. =A0The = power at the EC-2 drops to 10.6 volts while cranking. =A0This doesn't s= eem too bad to me, but something must be on the edge of operating. =A0I hav= e to order some wire in order to power the rear buss from the forward batte= ry, but I am going to repeat my separate battery test today, just to make s= ure that works consistently.

Steve

David Leonard wrote:
I think Steve is onto something here. =A0If you run the starter off the oth= er battery, it is likely to solve the problem reguardless of cause just lik= e your test run with an external battery.
=A0With reguard to the actual cause, I tend to side with Tracy in that is m= ore likely to be CAS interference rather than low voltage. =A0I have left m= y master on for several hours. =A0Enough that when the started turned (and = it barely turned) the voltage dropped low enough to really dim the cocktpit= lights and shut down the music radio, but the EC2 had enough juice to get = the engine going.
=A0Good luck!

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.Rota= ryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.n= et

=A0On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:40 AM, Steven W. Boese <SBoese@uwyo.edu <mailto:SBoese@uwyo.edu>> w= rote:

=A0 =A0Steve,

=A0 =A0I was able to produce symptoms similar to what you describe by
=A0 =A0inserting a 1.5 V flashlight battery into the CAS return wire such<= br> =A0 =A0that the CAS end of the wire was 1.5 V more negative than the CAS =A0 =A0return wire going to the EC2:
=A0 =A0CAS ----- battery ++++ EC2

=A0 =A0The opposite polarity didn't cause problems. =A0With the batter= y
=A0 =A0installed, there are one or two sparks when starting to turn the =A0 =A0CAS and then no more sparks until the CAS sensor is turning
=A0 =A0significantly faster than would be the case when turning the
=A0 =A0engine with the starter.

=A0 =A0It seems that you may have the CAS return grounded in addition to =A0 =A0the connection to the EC2. =A0If this is the case, then the voltage=
=A0 =A0drop from the starter current may shift the CAS return voltage
=A0 =A0similar to what I did with the test setup. =A0If I disconnect the =A0 =A0CAS from the EC2 at the EC2 connector, all the CAS wires show
=A0 =A0infinite resistance to ground. =A0It might be useful to see if your=
=A0 =A0wiring is similar.

=A0 =A0Steve Boese



=A0 =A0--
=A0 =A0Homepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/
=A0 =A0Archive and UnSub: =A0 =A0 =A0http://mail.lancaironli= ne.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html





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