X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.27.228] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c2) with ESMTP id 3984769 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:21:21 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.27.228; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.35]) by QMTA15.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 7sB51d0020lTkoCAFtLngJ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:20:47 +0000 Received: from sz0081.ev.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.26.137]) by OMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 7tLn1d0012xV6SL8QtLnQx; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:20:47 +0000 Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:20:46 +0000 (UTC) From: hoursaway1@comcast.net To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <613706069.5537471258824046995.JavaMail.root@sz0081a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_285792_324197044.1258824046994" X-Originating-IP: [76.20.142.193] X-Mailer: Zimbra 5.0.18_GA_3076.RHEL5_64 (ZimbraWebClient - IE6 (Win)/5.0.18_GA_3076.RHEL5_64) ------=_Part_285792_324197044.1258824046994 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A female voice?=C2=A0 Several years ago I roadtested a Cadillac SRX with NA= V for trans problem, a female voice came on as =C2=A0I=C2=A0 was leaving th= e dealership & told me to turn left to the nearest fuel station, I turned r= ight, she then reconfigured & told me to turn right at the next corner to g= et to a diff. fuel station, I turned left. I gues it was just the rebel in = me but then again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, she never did complain = when I didn't listen to her. I think I like her. David R. Cook. RV6A Rotary= .=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Mike Wills" =20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:13:44 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern= =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure=20 Rino,=20 =C2=A0So what brand/style of hose? I know a lot of people use Earls Perform= -O-Flex (including me). I've never had a hose that I assembled fail, but on= my previous RV (built by someone else) a fuel line (Earls) failed. In that= case the fitting was installed incorrectly and pushed the hose most of the= way back out of the fitting when assembled. It was a ticking timebomb that= was OK for years before it failed. We were lucky that it failed during a p= reflight without the engine running. An inflight failure would have resulte= d in an engine fire.=C2=A0I've met quite a few A&Ps who dislike Earls for t= his reason, but in my opinion if you are careful with assembly Earls hoses = are fine. Cant beat the huge variety of angled fittings that they offer.=20 =C2=A0I go the idiot light one better. My engine monitor was made by Audio = Flight Avionics, a=C2=A0Canadian company now defunct. It has an audio outpu= t that ties into your intercom and a very pleasant female voice tells you a= nytime any parameter goes out of limits.=C2=A0She also regularly (user defi= ned interval) tells you if all parameters are normal, and she tells you whe= n to switch tanks. The audio was a little annoying when I first got the eng= ine running and all the parameters were screwed up, but now that its workin= g correctly I sure like it.=20 Mike Wills=20 RV-4 N144MW =C2=A0=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rino=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:04 AM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure=20 Thanks for the response guys!=20 It was an exiting day to say the least.=20 At this time of the year there is not a single boat left on the lake so it = took some time before being rescued.=C2=A0 The firemen came and pulled the = plane to a local marina where I=C2=A0cut the hose fixed it and took off aga= in.=C2=A0 I knew that taking off again without checking the engine was risk= y but I did not want to leave the plane along the lake for the winter.=C2= =A0 I made it ok to the airport, about 10 minutes.=C2=A0 The engine turned = by hand and had all the exhaust pulses and it did produced full power as us= ual.=C2=A0=C2=A0 It was a good takeoff, my first on the water.=20 The oil hose broke at the fitting, (it kind of sheared and pulled out of th= e fitting) a mechanic said the outer fitting ferrule might have been presse= d too much and had damaged the hose itself.=C2=A0=C2=A0 In any case this is= not the type of hose that should be used on an aircraft.=C2=A0 I had my do= uts about this type of hose.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, I was right.=20 Now, there is another thing about this hose. It is not very far from the ex= haust stack (I will measure the distance).=C2=A0 The other hose that connec= t there is coverd with a fire sleeve, plus wrapped in foil,=C2=A0because it= is closer to the exhaust stack.=C2=A0 I will have to check that more close= ly.=C2=A0 Did not think of this heat damage possibility before now.=20 Yes the oil pressure warning LED will be there on the instrument panel the = next time the engine start.=20 I have Tracy's EM2 and the pressure display flashes when it is low but ther= e is nothing like a flashing RED light to attract my attention.=20 Quite a few lessons learned here and probably more are coming up!=20 Back to the hangar!=20 Rino=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:35 AM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure=20 Great flying, Rino!!=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0Dead stick landings (having made thr= ee in my 10 years) always get my heart rate up a notch not to mention disap= pearing seat cushions.=C2=A0 Fortunately, the rotary has a lot of bearing a= rea and can survive longer without adequate oil pressure than most engines = =E2=80=93 but, as Lynn said, tear it down, rebuild it and let us know what = you find.=20 I only use SS braided lines for oil, fuel AND coolant (I know a bit anal on= the coolant lines being capable of handling 750 psi of coolant pressure), = but I have never had a line break =E2=80=93 yet.=20 Needless to say, glad you made it down to the lake safely and both you and = the aircraft will fly again.=20 Welcome to the club {:>)=20 Ed.=C2=A0=20 Ed Anderson=20 Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered=20 Matthews, NC=20 eanderson@carolina.rr.com ------=_Part_285792_324197044.1258824046994 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>A female = voice?  Several years ago I roadtested a Cadillac SRX with NAV for tra= ns problem, a female voice came on as  I  was leaving the dealers= hip & told me to turn left to the nearest fuel station, I turned right,= she then reconfigured & told me to turn right at the next corner to ge= t to a diff. fuel station, I turned left. I gues it was just the rebel in m= e but then again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, she never did complain w= hen I didn't listen to her. I think I like her. David R. Cook. RV6A Rotary.=
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Wills" <rv-4mike@cox.net= >
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 11:13:44 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada East= ern
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure

Rino,
 
 So what brand/style of hose? I know = a lot of people use Earls Perform-O-Flex (including me). I've never had a h= ose that I assembled fail, but on my previous RV (built by someone else) a = fuel line (Earls) failed. In that case the fitting was installed incorrectl= y and pushed the hose most of the way back out of the fitting when assemble= d. It was a ticking timebomb that was OK for years before it failed. We wer= e lucky that it failed during a preflight without the engine running. An in= flight failure would have resulted in an engine fire. I've met quite a= few A&Ps who dislike Earls for this reason, but in my opinion if you a= re careful with assembly Earls hoses are fine. Cant beat the huge variety o= f angled fittings that they offer.
 
 I go the idiot light one better. My = engine monitor was made by Audio Flight Avionics, a Canadian company n= ow defunct. It has an audio output that ties into your intercom and a very = pleasant female voice tells you anytime any parameter goes out of limits.&n= bsp;She also regularly (user defined interval) tells you if all parameters = are normal, and she tells you when to switch tanks. The audio was a little = annoying when I first got the engine running and all the parameters were sc= rewed up, but now that its working correctly I sure like it.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW 
----- Original Message -----
= From: Rino
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:= 04 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressur= e

Thanks for the response guys!
 
It was an exiting day to say the least.
At this time of the year there is not a si= ngle boat left on the lake so it took some time before being rescued. = The firemen came and pulled the plane to a local marina where I cut t= he hose fixed it and took off again.  I knew that taking off again wit= hout checking the engine was risky but I did not want to leave the plane al= ong the lake for the winter.  I made it ok to the airport, about 10 mi= nutes.  The engine turned by hand and had all the exhaust pulses and i= t did produced full power as usual.   It was a good takeoff, my f= irst on the water.
 
The oil hose broke at the fitting, (it kin= d of sheared and pulled out of the fitting) a mechanic said the outer fitti= ng ferrule might have been pressed too much and had damaged the hose itself= .   In any case this is not the type of hose that should be used = on an aircraft.  I had my douts about this type of hose.  Unfortu= nately, I was right.
 
Now, there is another thing about this hos= e. It is not very far from the exhaust stack (I will measure the distance).=   The other hose that connect there is coverd with a fire sleeve, plus= wrapped in foil, because it is closer to the exhaust stack.  I w= ill have to check that more closely.  Did not think of this heat damag= e possibility before now.
 
Yes the oil pressure warning LED will be t= here on the instrument panel the next time the engine start.
I have Tracy's EM2 and the pressure displa= y flashes when it is low but there is nothing like a flashing RED light to = attract my attention.
 
Quite a few lessons learned here and proba= bly more are coming up!
Back to the hangar!
 
Rino
 
----- Original Message -----
= From: Ed Anderson
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 12= :35 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressur= e

Great flying, Rino!!&= nbsp;   Dead stick landings (having made three in my 10 years) al= ways get my heart rate up a notch not to mention disappearing seat cushions= .  Fortunately, the rotary has a lot of bearing area and can survive l= onger without adequate oil pressure than most engines =E2=80=93 but, as Lyn= n said, tear it down, rebuild it and let us know what you find.

 <= /P>

I only use SS braided= lines for oil, fuel AND coolant (I know a bit anal on the coolant lines be= ing capable of handling 750 psi of coolant pressure), but I have never had = a line break =E2=80=93 yet.

 <= /P>

Needless to say, glad= you made it down to the lake safely and both you and the aircraft will fly= again.

 <= /P>

Welcome to the club {= :>)

 <= /P>

Ed. 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

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