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Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:10:04 +0000 (UTC)
From: hoursaway1@comcast.net
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Need a sanity check
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Steve; Get your Fluke meter out & check voltage drops on ground circiuts, s=
ounds like the starter/cranking is using the majority of voltage available,=
 could be due to bad ground for starter (could even be high draw from start=
er itself, have seen this on cars diog. for poor starting) when I tried to =
crank our 13B RV6A for the first time only got a click, painted everything =
so well starter had bad grnd. Cleaned the paint off all contact areas, cran=
ked great. Hope this helps.=C2=A0 David R. Cook, =C2=A0Lansing=C2=A0 MI,=C2=
=A0 RV6A=C2=A0=C2=A0 Rotary N655HC=C2=A0 =C2=A0(paperwork, paperwork, paper=
work)=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Steve Brooks" <cozy4pilot@gmail.com>=20
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=20
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:49:48 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern=
=20
Subject: [FlyRotary] Need a sanity check=20

I have been working on an issue for three weeks now, with very=20
intermittent spark when cranking the engine. =C2=A0Needless to say, it won'=
t=20
start either.=20
I have a spark plug out of each rotor, and have them clamped to a good=20
ground, so that I can see a spark on the front and rear rotor.=20
If i rotate the CAS by hand, or turn the prop by hand, I get good spark.=20
When cranking with the starter, I get an initial spark, and then an=20
occasional spark on the front or rear rotor. =C2=A0Interesting, when I let=
=20
off the starter, I get a couple of good sparks as it coasts to a stop. =C2=
=A0=20
Both controllers do the same thing BTW.=20

I had emailed Tracy, as at one time I thought that the EC-2 had an=20
issue. =C2=A0Tracy said that he had seen this symptom a couple of times=20
before, and it is caused by noise from the starter interfering with the=20
CAS signal. =C2=A0He suggested that I install a 1K resistor across each of=
=20
the crank angle sensors. =C2=A0I installed the resistors, but it did not cu=
re=20
the problem.=20

This morning, determined to get to the bottom of this, I removed the=20
battery cable running to the starter, and using a spare battery, and a=20
jumper cable for the ground, I cranked the starter with this battery,=20
which was isolated from the airplanes electrical system. =C2=A0It had good=
=20
spark on both rotors .... yeah !!!=20

So then, I decided to reroute the starter cable on the other side of the=20
engine, which keeps it away from the other wiring. =C2=A0I hooked it back u=
p=20
to the aircraft battery, crossed my fingers and cranked the started. =C2=A0=
=20
Same problem. =C2=A0 I thought that perhaps the noise was getting into the=
=20
EC-2, so I put the spare battery in the back seat (pusher aircraft), and=20
using some jumper clips, I hooked the EC-2 through a fuse to the=20
isolated battery. =C2=A0Same problem.=20

I had extended the CAS wiring when I replaced the engine, so I decided=20
to reroute the shielded CAS wiring, so that I could eliminate the=20
unshielded wires, which were about 12" long. =C2=A0Same problem.=20

I am struggling with what to try next. =C2=A0This problem started before I=
=20
swapped the engine, as it was very hard to get started, though for three=20
years prior to that, I had no issues, and it started easily.=20

Has anyone else seen this type of problem, or have any suggestions ?=20

Steve Brooks=20
Cozy MKIV 13BT=20


--=20
Homepage: =C2=A0http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
Archive and UnSub: =C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/=
List.html=20

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<html><head><style type=3D'text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><=
div style=3D'font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Steve; Ge=
t your Fluke meter out &amp; check voltage drops on ground circiuts, sounds=
 like the starter/cranking is using the majority of voltage available, coul=
d be due to bad ground for starter (could even be high draw from starter it=
self, have seen this on cars diog. for poor starting) when I tried to crank=
 our 13B RV6A for the first time only got a click, painted everything so we=
ll starter had bad grnd. Cleaned the paint off all contact areas, cranked g=
reat. Hope this helps.&nbsp; David R. Cook, &nbsp;Lansing&nbsp; MI,&nbsp; R=
V6A&nbsp;&nbsp; Rotary N655HC&nbsp; &nbsp;(paperwork, paperwork, paperwork)=
<BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Steve Brooks" &lt;cozy4pilot@gma=
il.com&gt;<BR>To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" &lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.n=
et&gt;<BR>Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 10:49:48 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canad=
a Eastern<BR>Subject: [FlyRotary] Need a sanity check<BR><BR>I have been wo=
rking on an issue for three weeks now, with very <BR>intermittent spark whe=
n cranking the engine. &nbsp;Needless to say, it won't <BR>start either.<BR=
>I have a spark plug out of each rotor, and have them clamped to a good <BR=
>ground, so that I can see a spark on the front and rear rotor.<BR>If i rot=
ate the CAS by hand, or turn the prop by hand, I get good spark. <BR>When c=
ranking with the starter, I get an initial spark, and then an <BR>occasiona=
l spark on the front or rear rotor. &nbsp;Interesting, when I let <BR>off t=
he starter, I get a couple of good sparks as it coasts to a stop. &nbsp;<BR=
>Both controllers do the same thing BTW.<BR><BR>I had emailed Tracy, as at =
one time I thought that the EC-2 had an <BR>issue. &nbsp;Tracy said that he=
 had seen this symptom a couple of times <BR>before, and it is caused by no=
ise from the starter interfering with the <BR>CAS signal. &nbsp;He suggeste=
d that I install a 1K resistor across each of <BR>the crank angle sensors. =
&nbsp;I installed the resistors, but it did not cure <BR>the problem.<BR><B=
R>This morning, determined to get to the bottom of this, I removed the <BR>=
battery cable running to the starter, and using a spare battery, and a <BR>=
jumper cable for the ground, I cranked the starter with this battery, <BR>w=
hich was isolated from the airplanes electrical system. &nbsp;It had good <=
BR>spark on both rotors .... yeah !!!<BR><BR>So then, I decided to reroute =
the starter cable on the other side of the <BR>engine, which keeps it away =
from the other wiring. &nbsp;I hooked it back up <BR>to the aircraft batter=
y, crossed my fingers and cranked the started. &nbsp;<BR>Same problem. &nbs=
p; I thought that perhaps the noise was getting into the <BR>EC-2, so I put=
 the spare battery in the back seat (pusher aircraft), and <BR>using some j=
umper clips, I hooked the EC-2 through a fuse to the <BR>isolated battery. =
&nbsp;Same problem.<BR><BR>I had extended the CAS wiring when I replaced th=
e engine, so I decided <BR>to reroute the shielded CAS wiring, so that I co=
uld eliminate the <BR>unshielded wires, which were about 12" long. &nbsp;Sa=
me problem.<BR><BR>I am struggling with what to try next. &nbsp;This proble=
m started before I <BR>swapped the engine, as it was very hard to get start=
ed, though for three <BR>years prior to that, I had no issues, and it start=
ed easily.<BR><BR>Has anyone else seen this type of problem, or have any su=
ggestions ?<BR><BR>Steve Brooks<BR>Cozy MKIV 13BT<BR><BR><BR>--<BR>Homepage=
: &nbsp;http://www.flyrotary.com/<BR>Archive and UnSub: &nbsp; http://mail.=
lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html<BR></div></body></html>
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