X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao107.cox.net ([68.230.241.39] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c2) with ESMTP id 3984753 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:14:22 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.39; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20091121161345.CBZK21470.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:13:45 -0500 Received: from wills ([68.105.86.136]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id 7sDi1d00E2wVf0L04sDkUv; Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:13:45 -0500 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=oE_V-atLWvN6BJ50BzgA:9 a=kJeWmkfAD8bvkfF0iBMA:7 a=IeI-MPJNSuFSNAiWIdfDdZQvamQA:4 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=nwfmY6H5HhdT22a34eEA:9 a=7gd2H1Y2_msVP8SmrFkA:7 a=er4aG0TGflWS2-wU6cTE9tnQgnIA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <2F46DBC89D1E416BADC6894746B89168@wills> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:13:44 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0020_01CA6A82.8B193C20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01CA6A82.8B193C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rino, So what brand/style of hose? I know a lot of people use Earls = Perform-O-Flex (including me). I've never had a hose that I assembled = fail, but on my previous RV (built by someone else) a fuel line (Earls) = failed. In that case the fitting was installed incorrectly and pushed = the hose most of the way back out of the fitting when assembled. It was = a ticking timebomb that was OK for years before it failed. We were lucky = that it failed during a preflight without the engine running. An = inflight failure would have resulted in an engine fire. I've met quite a = few A&Ps who dislike Earls for this reason, but in my opinion if you are = careful with assembly Earls hoses are fine. Cant beat the huge variety = of angled fittings that they offer. I go the idiot light one better. My engine monitor was made by Audio = Flight Avionics, a Canadian company now defunct. It has an audio output = that ties into your intercom and a very pleasant female voice tells you = anytime any parameter goes out of limits. She also regularly (user = defined interval) tells you if all parameters are normal, and she tells = you when to switch tanks. The audio was a little annoying when I first = got the engine running and all the parameters were screwed up, but now = that its working correctly I sure like it. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Rino=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure Thanks for the response guys! It was an exiting day to say the least. At this time of the year there is not a single boat left on the lake = so it took some time before being rescued. The firemen came and pulled = the plane to a local marina where I cut the hose fixed it and took off = again. I knew that taking off again without checking the engine was = risky but I did not want to leave the plane along the lake for the = winter. I made it ok to the airport, about 10 minutes. The engine = turned by hand and had all the exhaust pulses and it did produced full = power as usual. It was a good takeoff, my first on the water. The oil hose broke at the fitting, (it kind of sheared and pulled out = of the fitting) a mechanic said the outer fitting ferrule might have = been pressed too much and had damaged the hose itself. In any case = this is not the type of hose that should be used on an aircraft. I had = my douts about this type of hose. Unfortunately, I was right. Now, there is another thing about this hose. It is not very far from = the exhaust stack (I will measure the distance). The other hose that = connect there is coverd with a fire sleeve, plus wrapped in foil, = because it is closer to the exhaust stack. I will have to check that = more closely. Did not think of this heat damage possibility before now. Yes the oil pressure warning LED will be there on the instrument panel = the next time the engine start. I have Tracy's EM2 and the pressure display flashes when it is low but = there is nothing like a flashing RED light to attract my attention. Quite a few lessons learned here and probably more are coming up! Back to the hangar! Rino ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 12:35 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure Great flying, Rino!! Dead stick landings (having made three in my = 10 years) always get my heart rate up a notch not to mention = disappearing seat cushions. Fortunately, the rotary has a lot of = bearing area and can survive longer without adequate oil pressure than = most engines - but, as Lynn said, tear it down, rebuild it and let us = know what you find. =20 I only use SS braided lines for oil, fuel AND coolant (I know a bit = anal on the coolant lines being capable of handling 750 psi of coolant = pressure), but I have never had a line break - yet. =20 Needless to say, glad you made it down to the lake safely and both = you and the aircraft will fly again. =20 Welcome to the club {:>) =20 Ed. =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01CA6A82.8B193C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rino,
 
 So what brand/style of hose? I = know a lot of=20 people use Earls Perform-O-Flex (including me). I've never had a hose = that I=20 assembled fail, but on my previous RV (built by someone else) a fuel = line=20 (Earls) failed. In that case the fitting was installed incorrectly and = pushed=20 the hose most of the way back out of the fitting when assembled. It was = a=20 ticking timebomb that was OK for years before it failed. We were lucky = that it=20 failed during a preflight without the engine running. An inflight = failure would=20 have resulted in an engine fire. I've met quite a few A&Ps who = dislike=20 Earls for this reason, but in my opinion if you are careful with = assembly Earls=20 hoses are fine. Cant beat the huge variety of angled fittings that they=20 offer.
 
 I go the idiot light one better. = My engine=20 monitor was made by Audio Flight Avionics, a Canadian company now = defunct.=20 It has an audio output that ties into your intercom and a very pleasant = female=20 voice tells you anytime any parameter goes out of limits. She also=20 regularly (user defined interval) tells you if all parameters are = normal, and=20 she tells you when to switch tanks. The audio was a little annoying when = I first=20 got the engine running and all the parameters were screwed up, but now = that its=20 working correctly I sure like it.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Rino
Sent: Saturday, November 21, = 2009 6:04=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil=20 Pressure

Thanks for the response = guys!
 
It was an exiting day to say the=20 least.
At this time of the year there is not = a single=20 boat left on the lake so it took some time before being rescued.  = The=20 firemen came and pulled the plane to a local marina where I cut = the hose=20 fixed it and took off again.  I knew that taking off again = without=20 checking the engine was risky but I did not want to leave the plane = along the=20 lake for the winter.  I made it ok to the airport, about 10=20 minutes.  The engine turned by hand and had all the exhaust = pulses and it=20 did produced full power as usual.   It was a good takeoff, = my first=20 on the water.
 
The oil hose broke at the fitting, = (it kind of=20 sheared and pulled out of the fitting) a mechanic said the outer = fitting=20 ferrule might have been pressed too much and had damaged the hose=20 itself.   In any case this is not the type of hose that = should be=20 used on an aircraft.  I had my douts about this type of = hose. =20 Unfortunately, I was right.
 
Now, there is another thing about = this hose. It=20 is not very far from the exhaust stack (I will measure the = distance). =20 The other hose that connect there is coverd with a fire sleeve, plus = wrapped=20 in foil, because it is closer to the exhaust stack.  I will = have to=20 check that more closely.  Did not think of this heat damage = possibility=20 before now.
 
Yes the oil pressure warning LED will = be there on=20 the instrument panel the next time the engine start.
I have Tracy's EM2 and the pressure = display=20 flashes when it is low but there is nothing like a flashing RED light = to=20 attract my attention.
 
Quite a few lessons learned here and = probably=20 more are coming up!
Back to the hangar!
 
Rino
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed Anderson
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Saturday, November 21, = 2009 12:35=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil=20 Pressure

Great = flying,=20 Rino!!    Dead stick landings (having made three in = my 10=20 years) always get my heart rate up a notch not to mention = disappearing seat=20 cushions.  Fortunately, the rotary has a lot of bearing area = and can=20 survive longer without adequate oil pressure than most engines =96 = but, as=20 Lynn said,=20 tear it down, rebuild it and let us know what you=20 find.

 

I only = use SS=20 braided lines for oil, fuel AND coolant (I know a bit anal on the = coolant=20 lines being capable of handling 750 psi of coolant pressure), but I = have=20 never had a line break =96 yet.

 

Needless = to say,=20 glad you made it down to the lake safely and both you and the = aircraft will=20 fly again.

 

Welcome = to the club=20 {:>)

 

Ed.  =

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A = N494BW Rotary=20 Powered

Matthews, = NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

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