X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.3c1) with ESMTP id 3951453 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:16:20 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E23EA173A0B for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2009 05:15:46 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 10986BEC00A for ; Sat, 7 Nov 2009 05:15:45 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <934B4BFCA576461D9FFA0DA5AC70BFC2@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: PRIVATE - TES O-Ring Dimensions Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 07:15:48 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01CA5F7A.218ABDF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 091106-2, 11/06/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CA5F7A.218ABDF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Mark, Good suggestions! George down under) George, Highly scientific method - I used the lid to the Go-Jo container... it = fit perfectly down into the oil ring groove. I then sprayed around the = outer surface and let it soak, hosed it off, then turned it over and did = the other side. Worked great. =20 For the 3 faces of the rotors I put a pvc pipe through the centers of = all three rotors and suspended them and slid them together and sprayed = each face, rotated and repeated until all 9 faces were covered. After = they set for a while, I lifted the rotors by the pvc pipe and took them = outside and hosed them off with the garden hose. I had to repeat a few = times, but it sure beat scraping them clean by hand. =20 When done, I sprayed with corrosion inhibitor. Mark On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:33 PM, George Lendich = wrote: Mark,=20 I don't think there would be much difference, for fitment, between = .190 and .210 anyway, about half a millimeter, but it's good to keep = things ( sizes) straight for those wanting to use them - especially when = Kelly went to so much trouble to confirm them. What method did you use to protect the bearing surface- taped-up the = bearing surface or grease? I assume you had to soak the rotors for a = while? George ( down under) George, Stretching on boards would only make them bigger. One dim. was = already 1/4" too big to start with. It is nearly impossible to shrink = them without cutting and splicing. Anyway, I got it confirmed that the = correct dia is 11.190 (I used 11.210" on my first engine and they fit = great). Now to get my order placed and move on. BTW.. regarding cleaning rotors, someone asked if oven cleaner = would work. Yes it does! I tried it and it worked great! I used two = different brands (with different chemical compounds) and both worked = like a champ. It took a few applications to get through the really = thick stuff, and I suggest you protect the bearings, but this worked = better than using Coastal Power Clean as I did when cleaning up my first = engine. Using oven cleaner, I got all three rotors cleaned up in a = couple of hours time. Just don't breath the fumes, get it on your = skin, or in your eyes! Mark S. =20 On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:01 AM, George Lendich = wrote: Mark, I believe Pl was advised of these proper measurements, but = ignored them. It may be he refused to believe that he was wrong. Sure as = hell beats stretching them on a board, the right size pops directly into = place. The beauty of fractional fittings. George (down under) George,=20 My research and measurments confirm these dimensions. Thanks = for the info. Mark =20 On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, George Lendich = wrote: Mark, Kelly Troyer, sent some end housings to Jeff Chrysler of = Creavey, to make absolutely sure of sizing. Jeff promised me that he = would hold a record of the proper size for all Mazda Rotary requests. The sizes ID by Jeff where as you have stated.for the oil = seals - and Coolant seals are PFA-Sil 0.093 section 11.190 inch ID PFA-Sil 0.093 section 8.950 inch ID HTH George (down under) Paul,=20 I'm sending this to you "private" so as not to confuse = everyone with a bunch of dimensions that may, or may not, turn out to be = correct. I spoke with Jeff today thinking that he would be able to = verify the correct sizes and he doesn't have those dimensions. Looking through my archives, I found an old email stating = that I initially used the 11.340" dimension, but it turned out to be too = large and I had to send it back to have it re-sized to 11.230" which = worked perfectly (didn't require stretching) and laid in the groove very = nicely. I found my receipt from Creavy Seal Co. Unfortunately, it = is only for one coolant seal, and both oil seals. =20 As for the outer coolant seal=85 Originally I ordered a = set of SIL .093 =96 11.340 ID o-rings. These proved to be too big and I = had to send them back. Note that 11.340 minus .090 is 11.230=85 the = correct size. I had given them a size based on CL, not ID. So, be sure = you=92re on the same page when ordering these things. After a few = emails to Jeff Chrysler, we got it right on the re-order with these = numbers=85 SIL .093 =96 11.230. These fit perfectly. I can find no = records for what I ordered on the inner coolant seals. Here is an email = I sent to Jeff Chrysler at Creavy Seal after fit-checking the new outer = coolant o-rings. Attn: Jeff Chrysler Hi Jeff, The reworked TES o-rings fit perfect. Final dimension for = the outer coolant o-rings is .093 x 11.230" ID. Thank you so much for = all your help. I can start putting my engine back together now. I have = passed this information along to Paul Lamar as well. This size should = work for all 13B and 20B engines, but you may want to verify size before = using it for the new Renesis engines. =20 Thanks again for your assistance, Mark Steitle The information for the two oil seals are SIL .093 =96 = 4.680 ID, and SIL .118 =96 4.330 ID. Using your example of how to measure and calculate the = coolant o-ring dimensions, I ran the numbers and came up with 11.182" = for the outer coolant o-ring. Based on this info, I order based on the = 11.230" dimension for the outer o-ring. I'll let you know how it works = out. All of the other dims agree with my numbers. Thanks, Mark =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01CA5F7A.218ABDF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Mark,
Good suggestions!
George  down under)

George,
 
Highly scientific method - I used the lid to the Go-Jo = container... it=20 fit perfectly down into the oil ring groove.  I then sprayed = around=20 the outer surface and let it soak, hosed it off, then turned = it over=20 and did the other side.  Worked great. 
 
For the 3 faces of the rotors I put a pvc pipe through = the=20 centers of all three rotors and suspended them and slid them together = and=20 sprayed each face, rotated and repeated until all 9 faces = were=20 covered.  After they set for a while, I lifted the rotors by the = pvc pipe=20 and took them outside and hosed them off with the garden hose.  I = had to=20 repeat a few times, but it sure beat scraping them clean by = hand. 
 
When done, I sprayed with corrosion inhibitor.
 
Mark

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 2:33 PM, George = Lendich <lendich@aanet.com.au> = wrote:
Mark,
I don't think there would be much = difference,=20 for fitment, between .190 and .210 anyway, about half a = millimeter, but=20 it's good to keep things ( sizes) straight for those wanting to use = them -=20 especially when Kelly went to so much trouble to confirm=20 them.
 
What method did you use to protect = the bearing=20 surface- taped-up the bearing surface or grease? I assume you had to = soak=20 the rotors for a while?
George ( down under)

George,
 
Stretching on boards would only make them bigger.  = One=20 dim. was already 1/4" too big to start with.  It is = nearly=20 impossible to shrink them without cutting and splicing.  = Anyway, I=20 got it confirmed that the correct dia is 11.190 (I used = 11.210" on my=20 first engine and they fit great).  Now to get my order placed = and=20 move on.
 
BTW.. regarding cleaning rotors, someone asked if oven = cleaner would=20 work.  Yes it does!  I tried it and it worked = great! =20 I used two different brands (with different chemical compounds) = and both=20 worked like a champ.  It took a few applications to get = through the=20 really thick stuff, and I suggest you protect the bearings, but = this=20 worked better than using Coastal Power Clean as I did when = cleaning up my=20 first engine.  Using oven cleaner, I got all three rotors = cleaned up=20 in a couple of hours time.   Just don't breath the = fumes, get it=20 on your skin, or in your eyes!
 
Mark S.
 


 
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:01 AM, George = Lendich=20 <lendich@aanet.com.au> wrote:
Mark,
I believe Pl was advised of = these proper=20 measurements, but ignored them. It may be he refused to believe = that he=20 was wrong. Sure as hell beats stretching them on a board, the = right size=20 pops directly into place. The beauty of fractional=20 fittings.
George (down = under)
George,
 
My research and measurments confirm these = dimensions. =20 Thanks for the info.
 
Mark 

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, = George Lendich=20 <lendich@aanet.com.au> wrote:
 
 Mark,
Kelly Troyer, sent some = end housings=20 to Jeff Chrysler of Creavey, to make absolutely sure of = sizing.=20 Jeff promised me that he would hold a record of the proper = size=20 for all Mazda Rotary requests.
 
The sizes ID by Jeff where = as you=20 have stated.for the oil seals - and  Coolant = seals=20 are
PFA-Sil   0.093 = section=20 11.190  inch ID
PFA-Sil   0.093=20 section   8.950 inch ID
HTH
George (down under)
 
 
Paul,
 
I'm sending this to you "private" so as not to = confuse=20 everyone with a bunch of dimensions that may, or may not, = turn out=20 to be correct.  I spoke with Jeff today thinking that = he=20 would be able to verify the correct sizes and he doesn't = have=20 those dimensions.
 
Looking through my archives, I found an old email = stating=20 that I initially used the 11.340" dimension, but it turned = out to=20 be too large and I had to send it back to have it = re-sized to=20 11.230" which worked perfectly (didn't require stretching) = and laid in the groove very nicely.
 
<snip>

I found my receipt = from=20 Creavy Seal Co.  Unfortunately, it is only for one = coolant=20 seal, and both oil seals. 

 

As for the outer = coolant=20 seal=85 Originally I ordered a set of SIL .093 =96 11.340 = ID=20 o-rings.  These proved to be too big and I had to = send them=20 back.  Note that 11.340 minus .090 is 11.230=85 the = correct=20 size.  I had given them a size based on CL, not = ID.  So,=20 be sure you=92re on the same page when ordering these = things. =20 After a few emails to Jeff Chrysler, we got it right on = the=20 re-order with these numbers=85 SIL .093 =96 11.230. = These fit=20 perfectly.  I can find no records for what I ordered = on the=20 inner coolant seals.  Here is an email I sent to Jeff = Chrysler at Creavy Seal after fit-checking the new outer = coolant=20 o-rings.

 

Attn:  Jeff=20 Chrysler

 

Hi = Jeff,

The = reworked TES=20 o-rings fit perfect.  Final dimension for the outer = coolant=20 o-rings is .093 x 11.230" ID.  Thank you so much for = all your=20 help.  I can start putting my engine back together = now. =20 I have passed this information along to Paul Lamar as = well. =20 This size should work for all 13B and 20B engines, but you = may=20 want to verify size before using it for the new Renesis=20 engines. 

 

Thanks = again for your=20 assistance,

Mark=20 Steitle

 

The information for = the two=20 oil seals are SIL .093 =96 4.680 ID, and SIL .118 =96 = 4.330=20 ID.

<snip>

 
Using your example of how to measure and = calculate the=20 coolant o-ring dimensions, I ran the numbers and came up = with=20 11.182" for the outer coolant o-ring.  Based on this = info, I=20 order based on the 11.230" dimension for the outer = o-ring. =20 I'll let you know how it works out.
 
All of the other dims agree with my numbers.
 
Thanks,
=
Mark   



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