X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3888774 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:05:23 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20091017000448739.DGHQ3542@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> for ; Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:04:48 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:04:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004F_01CA4E9B.EC2B7990" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcpOtrt823BpvRhLSsWZI1oTttIBCAABmXyw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20091017000448739.DGHQ3542@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01CA4E9B.EC2B7990 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, thanks, Steve If the value of 128 is taken as the zero reference in the EM3 with + being above and - being below then what Bill is seeing makes more sense. With my EFISM I plot the actual values for the EC3 MCT so my EFISM would show 128 whereas Bill's EM3 would apparently report 0 for the same value. Just different ways of representing the same data. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of sboese Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 7:16 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? Ed & Bill, If I understand correctly from discussion with Tracy, the default value of 128 for a MAP table value is what you would read directly from the data stream. The 128 is reported as zero on the EM3 with positive values indicating enrichment and negative values indicating leaning. Values of zero on the EM3 are values which have not been changed from the default. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:49 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? Ok, I understand now Bill. I think Al answered your question on how far from 14.7:1 to 9:1 on his controller of his 3 rotor - That's the only information I am aware of about how much twisting of the manual mixture control it may take. I can simply state that with the mixture Knob at 3:00 its too much fuel for my N/A turbo block - so I would say Al's information sounds reasonable to me. Unless Tracy has really changed things with the EC3, there are NO manifold pressure values in any bins (columns of the table) - the manifold pressure (when used) is converted into a "bin" pointer which points to the appropriate bin (numbered from 0 - 128) for that corresponding manifold pressure). That "bin" selected by the manifold pressure value of the engine then contains a fuel factor value represented by the value (height) of the bar in that bin. I believe Tracy's default value is 128 which theoretically would give a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio. Going above that value enriches the mixture and below leans it. IF there are zeros for the values of any of the bins then that says there is no Map correction Table (MCT) correction factor used for that bin. . So if the values of zero are valid, I would assume that for those regions the fuel needed must be derived solely from some other parameter - like RPM with the manifold pressure value only acting as a switch (above below 13Hg for example) But, if that is indeed the case then I'm still a bit surprised there are no MCT values for rpm. There is the possibility that somehow the MCT values for those bins were set to zero accidentally, but as you so rightly surmised, only Tracy can answer the question you have. Ed __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01CA4E9B.EC2B7990 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok, thanks, = Steve

 

If the value of 128 is taken as the = zero reference in the EM3 with + being above and – being below then = what Bill is seeing makes more sense.  With my EFISM I plot the actual values = for the EC3 MCT so my EFISM would show 128 whereas Bill’s EM3 would apparently report 0 for the same value.  Just different ways of representing the same data.

 

Ed

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of sboese
Sent: Friday, October 16, = 2009 7:16 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing = power?

 

Ed & = Bill,

 

If I understand correctly from = discussion with Tracy, the default value of 128 for a MAP table value is what you would read = directly from the data stream.  The 128 is reported as zero on the EM3 with = positive values indicating enrichment and negative values indicating = leaning.  Values of zero on the EM3 are values which have not been changed from = the default.

 

Steve

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Friday, October 16, = 2009 4:49 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing = power?

 

Ok, I understand = now Bill.  I think Al answered your question on how far from 14.7:1 to = 9:1 on his controller of his 3 rotor – That’s the only information = I am aware of about how much twisting of the manual mixture control it may take.  I can simply state that with the mixture Knob at 3:00 its = too much fuel for my N/A turbo block – so I would say Al’s = information sounds reasonable to me.

 

Unless Tracy has = really changed things with the EC3, there are NO manifold pressure values in = any bins (columns of the table) – the manifold pressure (when used) is = converted into a “bin”  pointer which points to the appropriate = bin (numbered from 0 – 128) for that corresponding manifold = pressure).  That “bin” selected by the manifold pressure value of the = engine then contains a fuel factor value represented by the value (height) of = the bar in that bin.  I believe Tracy’s default value is 128 which theoretically would give a 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio.  Going above that value enriches the mixture and below leans = it.

 

 IF there = are zeros for the values  of any of the bins then that says there is no Map = correction Table (MCT) correction factor used for that bin. .  So if the = values of zero are valid,  I would assume that for those regions the fuel = needed must be derived solely from some other parameter – like RPM with = the manifold pressure value only acting as a switch (above below 13Hg for = example)

But, if that is = indeed the case then I’m still a bit surprised there are no MCT values = for rpm. 

 

 

There is the = possibility that somehow the MCT values for those bins were set to zero = accidentally, but as you so rightly surmised, only Tracy can answer the question you have.

 

Ed<= o:p>

 



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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