X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao101.cox.net ([68.230.241.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3887704 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:28:14 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.45; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao101.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20091016052737.QRQP16492.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:27:37 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.133.78]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id tHTd1c0021hf1Cg04HTdse; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:27:37 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=0iCzXv5dXLIA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=YrmIdGhKAAAA:8 a=wkjjJm55rMxqGM0XMQUA:9 a=NaP4k1acq14VLDsOjLAA:7 a=UvWXyW2JlQ0EO4CCrTqxQ5pny54A:4 a=VJOXKkN81gcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=WII8gKYGV43mXsw8:21 a=e0g1drLqOAnr8tvA:21 a=euT0d9U_SbfdLgTSY2MA:9 a=2L4aZQLmdAjN_jk_d08A:7 a=eH1Bapb9YlNIfKGr2mvS8oxvJW0A:4 a=BUWN8KUTyKwsVZdj:21 a=Dsl9fy6R2PxWqQCR:21 X-CM-Score: 0.00 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:28:13 -0800 Message-ID: <576745C488564D5F86EA28D6E0595730@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01CA4DE6.C89D0170" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6838 Importance: Normal Thread-Index: AcpOD+ECs8Qi1zvOTg6h0k2xl8dnngAGFdAg In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CA4DE6.C89D0170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike; Sorry to hear about your nephew. I certainly hope that he comes out of = this in fine shape. =20 It does seems that your throttle body is causing some flow restriction = at WOT. You may want to consider replacing that setup at some point with something cleaner; like a single large throttle plate. BTW; I assume = that the vacuum gauge is reading inches hg; not H20. =20 We may have been over this before; but if you can get 2300+ static prop = rpm, it's not significantly over-propped. And I don't get the shallow dive = thing - yeah, in a dive you will get higher rpm; and when you return to level = (at the same altitude) you'll be exactly where you were before. =20 Meanwhile, have some fun with that airplane; head out over the dessert. =20 Best, Al G =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:22 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? =20 Sorry for my absence on a topic I started. My nephew had a skateboarding accident last weekend and is in the hospital in a chemically induced = coma until his brain swelling is under control. And I thought car powered airplanes were dangerous. Stay away from skateboards. =20 Tracy - My mixture monitor shows stoich at full throttle. I suspect an airflow issue rather than fuel. =20 Al - my vacuum gauge is located in the plenum directly behind the = throttle plates. =20 Lynn - I agree that the TB inlet is horrible and needs a bell mouth. The inlet is also pretty obstructed by the cowl which isnt visible in the = pics I sent. I think I'll make an attempt to clean this up some and see if it = gets me anywhere. If not I'll live with it for a while. =20 Kelly - always tough to determine if the problem is an engine issue or = if the load is simply too much for the engine to overcome. I'm going to experiment with the shallow dive several have suggested and see what happens. =20 Mike ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? =20 Since you have the vacuum gauge, this article will help you use it for troubleshooting. =20 http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2393/article.html =20 Bill B =20 _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:22 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? I dont have a regular manifold pressure gauge, just an industrial type vacuum gauge ( I really gotta get an MP gauge). Anyway, the vacuum gauge = was indicating 4" of vacuum. =20 Where are you measuring the 4" vacuum? If it is near the ports it is no unusual; if it is out before the runners; something is wrong. =20 Al ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CA4DE6.C89D0170 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mike;

Sorry to hear about your nephew. =  I certainly hope that he comes out of this in fine = shape.

 

It does seems that your throttle = body is causing some flow restriction at WOT.  You may want to consider = replacing that setup at some point with something cleaner; like a single large = throttle plate.  BTW; I assume that the vacuum gauge is reading inches hg; = not H20.

 

We may have been over this = before; but if you can get 2300+ static prop rpm, it’s not significantly = over-propped. And I don’t get the shallow dive thing – yeah, in a dive you = will get higher rpm; and when you return to level (at the same altitude) = you’ll be exactly where you were before.

 

Meanwhile, have some fun with = that airplane; head out over the dessert.

 

Best,  Al = G

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Thursday, October = 15, 2009 7:22 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = where's the missing power?

 

Sorry for my absence on a topic I started. My nephew had a skateboarding accident last = weekend and is in the hospital in a chemically induced coma until his brain swelling = is under control. And I thought car powered airplanes were dangerous. Stay = away from skateboards.

 

Tracy - My mixture monitor = shows stoich at full throttle. I suspect an airflow issue rather than = fuel.

 

Al - my vacuum gauge is = located in the plenum directly behind the throttle plates.

 

Lynn - I agree that the TB = inlet is horrible and needs a bell mouth. The inlet is also pretty obstructed by = the cowl which isnt visible in the pics I sent. I think I'll make an attempt = to clean this up some and see if it gets me anywhere. If not I'll live with = it for a while.

 

Kelly - always tough to = determine if the problem is an engine issue or if the load is simply too much for the = engine to overcome. I'm going to experiment with the shallow dive several have suggested and see what happens.

 

Mike

=

----- Original Message = -----

Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:21 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power?

 

Since you have the vacuum gauge, this article = will help you use it for troubleshooting.

 

 http://autospeed.co= m/cms/A_2393/article.html

 

Bill B

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Tuesday, October = 13, 2009 7:22 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = where's the missing power?

I dont have a regular = manifold pressure gauge, just an industrial type vacuum gauge ( I really gotta = get an MP gauge). Anyway, the vacuum gauge was indicating 4" of = vacuum.

 

Where are you measuring the 4” vacuum?  If it is near the ports it = is no unusual; if it is out before the runners; something is = wrong.

 

Al

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