X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com ([209.85.218.227] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3862006 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:24:16 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.227; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by bwz27 with SMTP id 27so2597838bwz.19 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 05:23:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=oeFDSmcDXX2tJJR8D4Gh4n3be7/YilTJGFDMAYoSD+Y=; b=chuHrn0T06GQCGILKCOG1emN235GUgVE5NnAwJ/K54oE7IidgvdMAyg7heQxn1FcSk MGzjytBjJoKTVGbssObw/Z/FbQqrxlclCPyup83c7WvnCRTowIZzh7BZihmGMZCIH7iK t2ZkthPlPcwWR/oLYZaaMawC5M8QsVKSvnkeA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=LOW03FwNxPiHlCyTjPLOFf+ceRc345kUWwAOfX4XAhIc/iGQxFi8pxA6nEuY616pz0 kRwtKb8nng2wkcYzZBL46JsXtquVj37t9oPmB5z6n5DNoRupCCbWsu2ew8prQvbhMarF iP+zZ/nQxuId7GI2Zz+Fnv/zG9TbD8W0OT0ts= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.153.217 with SMTP id l25mr784666bkw.108.1253622222418; Tue, 22 Sep 2009 05:23:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 07:23:42 -0500 Message-ID: <5cf132c0909220523o4212e857maec36e48104844c9@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Progress report from Houston From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d094e3ff4da047429abbf --0015175d094e3ff4da047429abbf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Kelly, No, I haven't filled the cavities with JB... yet. I'm not sure that it is necessary. The actual sealing is done by the plate & RTV bolted to the outside. So, I don't see any real benefit to potting the inner cavities with JB. Belt and suspenders maybe? Mark S. On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Mark, > Very enlightening...........Did you also filll the rest of the coolant > cavity with JB weld > or some other epoxy resin ??..........Looks great.............looking > forward to hearing > that you have at least 350 hp on tap when installed !!............. > > Thanks a Bunch, > -- > Kelly Troyer > "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > > > > > -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle : > -------------- > > George, > > What I like about the plate is that if it leaks you can remove it, clean it > up, and re-seal it. You can't do that if it is welded in place. Besides, > it is held in place with four 1/4-20 screws. > > Mark > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:03 PM, George Lendich wrote: > >> Mark, >> I like that plate, it gives added support to the manifold. It may be >> better welded on- then again there's the distortion issue. >> George ( down under) >> >> No, they're plates that fit over the 2" SS tubes and bolt to the rotor >> housing. You use RTV to make a seal between the sealing plate, rotor >> housing and SS tube. Look closely at the picture I posted, and then check >> the web link. The web page shows the entire process start to finish. >> http://www.rotaryeng.net/Welded-steel-p-port.html >> >> Mark >> >> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:39 PM, George Lendich wrote: >> >>> Mark, >>> What are PL's sealing plates are these the sides plates he uses to >>> pressure the sealant? >>> George ( down under) >>> >>> Kelly, >>> >>> Yes, I TIG welded them to the inner liner, then used PL's sealing plates >>> and Ultra Grey RTV to seal off the coolant. I plan to pressure test them >>> prior to assembly. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >>> >>>> Mark, >>>> Have you made any decisions on the retension/sealing method for your >>>> 20B "P" port inserts ?? >>>> -- >>>> Kelly Troyer >>>> "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine >>>> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >>>> "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >>>> >>>> -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle : >>>> -------------- >>>> >>>> Bill, >>>> >>>> I'm not sure what's changed, but my oil temps are up from what I >>>> reported earlier. I routinely see 220-225 on climbout, then they settle >>>> down to 200 in cruise. Maybe I'm producing more hp now, or maybe the >>>> earlier temperature report was not in mid-summer, or possibly my system is >>>> not cooling as well as it did earlier. I'm just glad that I installed TES >>>> o-rings throughout. >>>> My cowl flap initially had an aluminum lip, that protruded into the >>>> airstream about 1". This was a quick and dirty test to see the result. I >>>> couldn't open or close it, it was open all the time. I have since replaced >>>> the 1" lip with a servo-controlled door so I can open/close as desired. >>>> When closed it is the same as a stock cowl. This is very helpful in cooler >>>> climates, not so much during triple-digit Texas summer months. >>>> >>>> I also added an "airfoil shaped" piece on the firewall directly above >>>> the cowl flap opening. This was done in the hope of helping coax the heated >>>> air out of the cowl. But I didn't detect any great improvement in cooling. >>>> Oh, well. Next thing I plan on adding is small air dams on each end of the >>>> flap door. The idea here is to promote more efficient airflow out of the >>>> cowl flap. I've heard that these make a big difference. We'll see. >>>> >>>> If you are considering installing a cowl flap, you may want to consider >>>> locating it on the side, or possibly install one on each side, back near the >>>> firewall. This would allow you to make the opening larger, and this >>>> location may be in a lower pressure area than the bottom, especially during >>>> climbout. Just a thought. >>>> >>>> Cooling is still marginal in the Texas heat, and it will be worse >>>> with the new P-port 20B engine. So, I may be forced to make some major >>>> changes to get the more powerful engine to cool, or else be forced to >>>> throttle back during climbout. I've been considering relocating the >>>> radiator from under the engine to the cool side of the engine (fore/aft). >>>> This would allow me to use a slightly larger radiator. It would clean up >>>> the plumbing and significantly shorten the cooling lines too. >>>> No, I haven't experienced SAG. But then I'm running Renesis type >>>> irridium spark plugs. I'm at 143 hours now. Personally, I won't use >>>> anything else. >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> > --0015175d094e3ff4da047429abbf Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Kelly,
=A0
No, I haven't filled the cavities with JB... yet.=A0 I'm not s= ure that it is necessary.=A0 The actual sealing is done by the plate & = RTV=A0bolted to=A0the outside.=A0 So, I don't see any real benefit to p= otting the inner cavities with JB.=A0 Belt and suspenders maybe?
=A0
Mark S.

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>= ; wrote:
Mark,
=A0=A0 Very enlightening...........Did you also filll the rest of the = coolant cavity with JB weld
or some other epoxy resin ??..........Looks great.............looking = forward to hearing
that you have at least 350 hp on tap when installed !!.............
=A0
Thanks a Bunch,
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
&q= uot;RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold <= br>


=A0
-------------- Original message from Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>= ;: --------------

George,
=A0
What I like about=A0the plate=A0is that if it leaks you can remove it,= clean it up, and re-seal it.=A0 You can't do that if it is welded in p= lace.=A0 Besides, it is held in place with four 1/4-20 screws.
=A0
Mark

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:03 PM, George Lendich = <lendich@aanet.com.au> wrote:
=A0Mark,
I like that plate, it gives added supp= ort to the manifold. It may be better welded on- then again there's the= distortion issue.
George ( down under)
No, they're plates that fit over the 2" SS tubes and bolt to = the rotor housing.=A0 You use RTV to make a seal=A0between the sealing plat= e, rotor housing and SS tube.=A0 Look closely at the picture I posted, and = then check the web link.=A0 The web page shows the entire process start to = finish.=A0 http://www.rotaryeng.net/Welded-steel-p-port.html
=A0
Mark

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:39 PM, George Lendich = <lendich@aanet.com.au> wrote:
Mark,
What are PL's sealing plates=A0are= these the sides plates he uses to pressure the sealant?
George ( down under)
Kelly,
=A0
Yes, I TIG welded them to the inner liner, then used PL's sealing = plates and Ultra Grey RTV to seal off the coolant.=A0 I plan to=A0pressure = test them prior to assembly.
=A0
Mark

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Kelly Troyer <kel= tro@att.net> wrote:
Mark,
=A0 Have you made any decisions on the retension/sealing method for yo= ur 20B "P" port inserts ??
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
&q= uot;RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold <= /div>
-------------- Original message from Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>= ;: --------------

Bill,
=A0
I'm not sure what's changed, but my oil temps are up from what= I reported earlier.=A0 I routinely see 220-225 on climbout, then they sett= le down to 200 in cruise.=A0 Maybe I'm producing more hp now, or maybe = the earlier temperature report was not in mid-summer, or possibly my system= is not cooling as well as it did earlier.=A0 I'm just glad that I=A0in= stalled TES o-rings throughout.=A0
My cowl flap initially had an aluminum lip, that=A0protruded into the = airstream=A0about 1".=A0 This was a quick and dirty test to see the re= sult.=A0=A0I couldn't open or close it, it was open all the time.=A0 I = have since replaced the 1" lip with a servo-controlled=A0door so I can= open/close as desired.=A0 When closed it is the same as a stock cowl.=A0 T= his is very helpful in cooler climates, not so much during triple-digit Tex= as summer months.
=A0
I also added an "airfoil shaped" piece on the firewall direc= tly above the cowl flap opening.=A0 This was done=A0in the hope=A0of helpin= g coax=A0the heated air out of=A0the cowl.=A0 But I didn't detect any g= reat improvement in cooling.=A0 Oh, well.=A0=A0Next thing I plan on adding = is small air dams on each end of the flap door.=A0 The idea here is to prom= ote more efficient airflow out of the cowl flap.=A0 I've heard that the= se make a big difference.=A0 We'll see.=A0=A0=20
=A0
If you are considering installing a cowl flap, you may want to conside= r locating=A0it on the side, or=A0possibly install one on=A0each side, back= near the firewall.=A0 This would allow you to make=A0the opening=A0larger,= and this location=A0may=A0be=A0in a lower pressure area than=A0the bottom,= especially during climbout.=A0 Just a thought.
=A0
Cooling is still marginal in the Texas=A0heat, and=A0it will be worse = with=A0the new P-port 20B engine.=A0 So, I may be forced to make some major= changes to get the more powerful=A0engine to cool, or else be forced to th= rottle back during climbout.=A0 I've=A0been considering=A0relocating th= e radiator from under the engine to=A0the cool side of the engine (fore/aft= ).=A0 This would allow me to use a slightly larger radiator.=A0 It would cl= ean up the plumbing and significantly shorten the cooling lines too.=A0=A0= =A0
No, I haven't experienced SAG.=A0 But then I'm running Renesis= type irridium spark plugs.=A0 I'm at 143 hours now.=A0 Personally, I w= on't use anything else.=A0
=A0
Mark
=A0

=


--0015175d094e3ff4da047429abbf--