X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f213.google.com ([209.85.220.213] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3861743 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:55:32 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.213; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by fxm9 with SMTP id 9so2670265fxm.1 for ; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:54:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=C5xeAKRi2bdrbM7MussT7y2DUmPIN9lajgSYx2jtius=; b=K1GSOEqFBSdCQGd3kNXUvv1TQFkkgnWx2+4iBopF65nQG1w4D80RyGdZbRBueHlphs lqGr6FXr4jL/uc34tSAktKlmVl7HoqSzpz/mVBnN2iJQ+2OyrxNlkYWAh7UnuhXmEN6P GGnsj9UwZ0JQgX+6TpfBWKq8gq+Ptp43vOWQo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ZHYeKHJd3Vl+BllAm+hsoTHROsVIPi2GMRUkC/41c4IuqF4MVQsxT5kic4LFCC3stL 2NKvU/4vw6Ep8HRXcBq+R8p6JPf+niHV3n9BlVCsUdC4ElqCKAPHj9wqI4pD8z/o2Tp0 ZGy1BLQLWJ3d/pEK06ia9v4NL6KX42lNOGt3Y= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.154.83 with SMTP id n19mr294079bkw.121.1253584494890; Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:54:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:54:54 -0500 Message-ID: <5cf132c0909211854t3247de58j77519faf1f41ae2@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: "P" ports(was) Progress report from Houston From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cac56839108047420e2ab --0015175cac56839108047420e2ab Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 George, Keep in mind that it takes a bunch more heat to weld aluminum than steel. I feel you risk warping the housing by welding on the aluminum. The reason I recessed the tube by .020" is to allow for a small radius and cleanup without compromising the weld. Recess the tube and run a small bead and there will be very little cleanup needed. Also, the weld only needs to make a seal... there is virtually no load on the inlet tube, so a small bead is all that's necessary. YMMV Mark On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:46 PM, George Lendich wrote: > Kelly, > There is little to weld to and less metal when cleaned up after welding and > the corner radiased - if I could suggest the method Richard Sohn used, which > I think is similar to the Powersport approach i.e. using a flange - OR > welding an AL tube to the inner coolant area. Tig welding on both options is > advisable. > George ( down under) > > Mark, > I have not heard of PL's "Sealing Plates" (must have been after I was > excommunicated)........Did > you have any major trouble welding to the steel liner (warpage,etc) and how > did you cleanup > welds (machine,grind,etc)??............Do you have any photos you would > care to share ?.........I > have a 13B "Cosmo" waiting in the wings for a "P" port > conversion............. > > Thanks, > > -- > Kelly Troyer > "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > > > > > -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle : > -------------- > > Kelly, > > Yes, I TIG welded them to the inner liner, then used PL's sealing plates > and Ultra Grey RTV to seal off the coolant. I plan to pressure test them > prior to assembly. > > Mark > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > >> Mark, >> Have you made any decisions on the retension/sealing method for your 20B >> "P" port inserts ?? >> -- >> Kelly Troyer >> "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> >> -------------- Original message from Mark Steitle : >> -------------- >> >> Bill, >> >> I'm not sure what's changed, but my oil temps are up from what I reported >> earlier. I routinely see 220-225 on climbout, then they settle down to 200 >> in cruise. Maybe I'm producing more hp now, or maybe the earlier >> temperature report was not in mid-summer, or possibly my system is not >> cooling as well as it did earlier. I'm just glad that I installed TES >> o-rings throughout. >> My cowl flap initially had an aluminum lip, that protruded into the >> airstream about 1". This was a quick and dirty test to see the result. I >> couldn't open or close it, it was open all the time. I have since replaced >> the 1" lip with a servo-controlled door so I can open/close as desired. >> When closed it is the same as a stock cowl. This is very helpful in cooler >> climates, not so much during triple-digit Texas summer months. >> >> I also added an "airfoil shaped" piece on the firewall directly above the >> cowl flap opening. This was done in the hope of helping coax the heated air >> out of the cowl. But I didn't detect any great improvement in cooling. Oh, >> well. Next thing I plan on adding is small air dams on each end of the flap >> door. The idea here is to promote more efficient airflow out of the cowl >> flap. I've heard that these make a big difference. We'll see. >> If you are considering installing a cowl flap, you may want to consider >> locating it on the side, or possibly install one on each side, back near the >> firewall. This would allow you to make the opening larger, and this >> location may be in a lower pressure area than the bottom, especially during >> climbout. Just a thought. >> >> Cooling is still marginal in the Texas heat, and it will be worse with the >> new P-port 20B engine. So, I may be forced to make some major changes to >> get the more powerful engine to cool, or else be forced to throttle back >> during climbout. I've been considering relocating the radiator from under >> the engine to the cool side of the engine (fore/aft). This would allow me >> to use a slightly larger radiator. It would clean up the plumbing and >> significantly shorten the cooling lines too. >> No, I haven't experienced SAG. But then I'm running Renesis type irridium >> spark plugs. I'm at 143 hours now. Personally, I won't use anything else. >> >> >> Mark >> >> >> > --0015175cac56839108047420e2ab Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
George,
=A0
Keep in mind that it takes a bunch more heat to weld aluminum than ste= el.=A0=A0I feel you=A0risk warping the housing by welding on the aluminum.= =A0 The reason I recessed the tube by .020" is to allow for a small ra= dius and cleanup without compromising the weld.=A0 Recess the tube and run = a small bead and there will be very little cleanup needed.=A0 Also, the wel= d only needs to make a seal... there is virtually no load on the inlet tube= , so a small bead is all that's necessary.=A0 YMMV
=A0
Mark =A0

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:46 PM, George Lendich = <lendich@aanet= .com.au> wrote:
=A0Kelly,
There is little to weld to and less me= tal when cleaned up after welding=A0and the corner radiased - if I could su= ggest the method Richard Sohn used, which I think is similar to the Powersp= ort approach i.e. using a flange -=A0OR welding an AL tube to the inner coo= lant area. Tig welding on both options is advisable.
George ( down under)
Mark,
I=A0have not heard of PL's "Sealing Plates" (must have b= een after I was excommunicated)........Did
you have any major trouble welding to the steel liner (warpage,etc) an= d how did you cleanup
welds (machine,grind,etc)??............Do you have any photos you woul= d care to share ?.........I
have a 13B "Cosmo" waiting in the wings for a "P" = port conversion.............
=A0
Thanks,
=A0
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
&q= uot;RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold <= br>


=A0
-------------- Original message from Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>= ;: --------------

Kelly,
=A0
Yes, I TIG welded them to the inner liner, then used PL's sealing = plates and Ultra Grey RTV to seal off the coolant.=A0 I plan to=A0pressure = test them prior to assembly.
=A0
Mark

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Kelly Troyer <kel= tro@att.net> wrote:
Mark,
=A0 Have you made any decisions on the retension/sealing method for yo= ur 20B "P" port inserts ??
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
&q= uot;RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold <= /div>
-------------- Original message from Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>= ;: --------------

Bill,
=A0
I'm not sure what's changed, but my oil temps are up from what= I reported earlier.=A0 I routinely see 220-225 on climbout, then they sett= le down to 200 in cruise.=A0 Maybe I'm producing more hp now, or maybe = the earlier temperature report was not in mid-summer, or possibly my system= is not cooling as well as it did earlier.=A0 I'm just glad that I=A0in= stalled TES o-rings throughout.=A0
My cowl flap initially had an aluminum lip, that=A0protruded into the = airstream=A0about 1".=A0 This was a quick and dirty test to see the re= sult.=A0=A0I couldn't open or close it, it was open all the time.=A0 I = have since replaced the 1" lip with a servo-controlled=A0door so I can= open/close as desired.=A0 When closed it is the same as a stock cowl.=A0 T= his is very helpful in cooler climates, not so much during triple-digit Tex= as summer months.
=A0
I also added an "airfoil shaped" piece on the firewall direc= tly above the cowl flap opening.=A0 This was done=A0in the hope=A0of helpin= g coax=A0the heated air out of=A0the cowl.=A0 But I didn't detect any g= reat improvement in cooling.=A0 Oh, well.=A0=A0Next thing I plan on adding = is small air dams on each end of the flap door.=A0 The idea here is to prom= ote more efficient airflow out of the cowl flap.=A0 I've heard that the= se make a big difference.=A0 We'll see.=A0=A0=20
=A0
If you are considering installing a cowl flap, you may want to conside= r locating=A0it on the side, or=A0possibly install one on=A0each side, back= near the firewall.=A0 This would allow you to make=A0the opening=A0larger,= and this location=A0may=A0be=A0in a lower pressure area than=A0the bottom,= especially during climbout.=A0 Just a thought.
=A0
Cooling is still marginal in the Texas=A0heat, and=A0it will be worse = with=A0the new P-port 20B engine.=A0 So, I may be forced to make some major= changes to get the more powerful=A0engine to cool, or else be forced to th= rottle back during climbout.=A0 I've=A0been considering=A0relocating th= e radiator from under the engine to=A0the cool side of the engine (fore/aft= ).=A0 This would allow me to use a slightly larger radiator.=A0 It would cl= ean up the plumbing and significantly shorten the cooling lines too.=A0=A0= =A0
No, I haven't experienced SAG.=A0 But then I'm running Renesis= type irridium spark plugs.=A0 I'm at 143 hours now.=A0 Personally, I w= on't use anything else.=A0
=A0
Mark
=A0


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