X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao102.cox.net ([68.230.241.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3860207 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:41:07 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.44; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20090920154032.UKFM12000.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:40:32 -0400 Received: from wills ([68.105.90.215]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id j3gV1c0014emyWU043gXNC; Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:40:31 -0400 X-VR-Score: 0.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=34gHgAga_bsA:10 a=4lUeG9rJx75WjJsb2r4A:9 a=URF8q0VTx3inFjMMAAQA:7 a=p8h9uL7DXbmxksC-eL_eqF9ppJMA:4 a=o2QoyYduAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ZamSURSzEPLW6nJyXRoA:9 a=Gvar-ElgjiKv7kk7YMUA:7 a=k5Gb5jrKbo78tu9WZraf86jUTZcA:4 a=TlnOPt13aEMA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <142FF4E213124CC7964CBCADB04EA090@wills> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Another mixed day out at the hangar Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 08:40:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01CA39CE.0232A480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CA39CE.0232A480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not a big fan of pipe threads either. But on my Bruce Turrentine = built engine various ports had been plugged using plugs with a straight = thread and then potted over with epoxy and many of those have leaked in = the 30 hours of run time I have on the engine. I wish he'd used pipe = threads on those before potting them. My remote filter mount was made by Trans Dapt. This is probably the 4th = or 5th one of these that I've used on various projects and have never = had an issue with leaks. Have always used Earls AN fittings and hose = including the NPT to AN adapters. I'd agree with what a couple of others have said here. First thing I'd = do is make absolutely certain that the leak really is where you think it = is. Its amazing how far 1 drop of oil can travel when subjected to the = airflow of a prop. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: MONTY ROBERTS=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:05 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Another mixed day out at the hangar The first bad news is that I replaced my romote oil filter mount and = installed a new filter. As I have mentioned here I have had it leaking = at the rubber filter seal. The old one looked ok, but since replacing = the filters no less than three times and knowing that the eye cannot see = all inperfections, I replaced the mount AND filter (K&N 2004 filter). = But, NO JOY. It is still leaking where the filter mounts. It IS seeping = from the filter seal and NOT the two hose connections...no doubt on = this. I know the rotary's oil pressure is higher than other engines but = I would not think it would be so much that it is overwhelming this = standard mount and seal. This is just a standard screw on remote oil = mount made out of AL...Made in the USA. Looks like many others I have = seen. Y'all have any ideas. =20 Chris, When I was much younger, and much more foolish, I had a 66 mustang = fastback with all the go fast additions. The engine was lowered in the = frame and moved back a ways to help the weight distribution. Doing so = required a remote mount oil filter. I had a terrible time with leaks. = There was no internet at the time, and info was hard to come by, = especially in BFA.....(a popular derogatory phrase involving the = substitution of Arkansas for Egypt). Eventually I figured out that the = problem was the fittings not the oil filter. I had NAS type fittings and = braided lines from the block to the filter mount. The filter mount had = female NPT threads. Being that I was a perpetually poor kid, I used some = brass hardware store fittings for the pipe thread to NAS joints. Two = problems: Pipe threads are terrible and I hate Teflon tape because it is = a pain in the ass, leaks, and the shreds can get into delicate stuff and = clog/break things. The second problem was that although the NAS fittings = will thread onto the hardware store fittings, the tapers are = incompatible and will not seal adequately. The solution was to get = proper NAS fittings and to use a good high quality PTFE based pipe dope. = Pipe dope is messy, but it is one of the best things I ever discovered. = It always seals the first time, and will simply dissolve into hydraulic = fluid or oil and will not harm or clog anything.=20 I had thought the casting was bad or something, but the seep was only = happening when the engine was warm and the oil was thin. It was small = and drained down into the filter/seal area and by the time I looked at = it the evidence of the seep was gone..... Check carefully when the = engine/oil is warm and have somebody rev the engine while you look very = carefully at the area around the fittings with a bright light. I HATE TEFLON TAPE!!!! I HATE PIPE THREADS!!! I never got a ticket in that car (which is a minor miracle), but your = brothers in blue used to pull me over constantly just to look at the = car. Good luck. Monty ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CA39CE.0232A480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm not a big fan of pipe threads = either. But on my=20 Bruce Turrentine built engine various ports had been plugged using plugs = with a=20 straight thread and then potted over with epoxy and many of those have = leaked in=20 the 30 hours of run time I have on the engine. I wish he'd used pipe = threads on=20 those before potting them.
 
My remote filter mount was made by = Trans Dapt. This=20 is probably the 4th or 5th one of these that I've used on various = projects=20 and have never had an issue with leaks. Have always used Earls AN = fittings and=20 hose including the NPT to AN adapters.
 
I'd agree with what a couple of others = have said=20 here. First thing I'd do is make absolutely certain that the leak really = is=20 where you think it is. Its amazing how far 1 drop of oil can travel when = subjected to the airflow of a prop.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 MONTY ROBERTS
Sent: Sunday, September 20, = 2009 8:05=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Another mixed=20 day out at the hangar

 
 
 
The first bad news is = that I replaced=20 my romote oil filter mount and installed a new filter.  As I = have=20 mentioned here I have had it leaking at the rubber filter = seal.  The=20 old one looked ok, but since replacing the filters no less than = three=20 times and knowing that the eye cannot see all inperfections, I = replaced=20 the mount AND filter (K&N 2004 filter).  But, NO JOY. It is = still=20 leaking where the filter mounts.  It IS seeping from the filter = seal=20 and NOT the two hose connections...no doubt on this.  I know = the=20 rotary's oil pressure is higher than other engines but I would not = think it=20 would be so much that it is overwhelming this standard mount and = seal. =20 This is just a standard screw on remote oil mount made out of = AL...Made in=20 the USA.  Looks like many others I have seen.  Y'all have = any=20 ideas. 
 
 
Chris,
 
When I was much younger, and much = more foolish, I=20 had a 66 mustang fastback with all the go fast additions. The = engine was=20 lowered in the frame and moved back a ways to help the weight = distribution.=20 Doing so required a remote mount oil filter. I had a terrible time = with leaks.=20 There was no internet at the time, and info was hard to come by, = especially in=20 BFA.....(a popular derogatory phrase involving the substitution of = Arkansas=20 for Egypt). Eventually I figured out that the problem was the fittings = not the=20 oil filter. I had NAS type fittings and braided lines from the block = to the=20 filter mount. The filter mount had female NPT threads. Being that I = was a=20 perpetually poor kid, I used some brass hardware store fittings for = the pipe=20 thread to NAS joints. Two problems: Pipe threads are terrible and I = hate=20 Teflon tape because it is a pain in the ass, leaks, and the shreds can = get=20 into delicate stuff and clog/break things. The second problem was that = although the NAS fittings will thread onto the hardware store = fittings, the=20 tapers are incompatible and will not seal adequately. The solution was = to get=20 proper NAS fittings and to use a good high quality PTFE based pipe = dope. Pipe=20 dope is messy, but it is one of the best things I ever discovered. It = always=20 seals the first time, and will simply dissolve into hydraulic fluid or = oil and=20 will not harm or clog anything.
 
I had thought the casting was bad or = something,=20 but the seep was only happening when the engine was warm and the oil = was thin.=20 It was small and drained down into the filter/seal area and by the = time I=20 looked at it the evidence of the seep was gone..... Check carefully = when the=20 engine/oil is warm and have somebody rev the engine while you look = very=20 carefully at the area around the fittings with a bright = light.
 
I HATE TEFLON TAPE!!!!
 
I HATE PIPE THREADS!!!
 
I never got a ticket in that car = (which is a=20 minor miracle), but your brothers in blue used to pull me over = constantly just=20 to look at the car.
 
Good luck.
 
Monty
 
 
 
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