X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3859825 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 19 Sep 2009 19:58:31 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 946D0173683 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:57:57 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id CB7C6BEC009 for ; Sun, 20 Sep 2009 07:57:56 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <53400FE79E0442169703E5EA60A5E0D7@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: "P" ports (was) Three or two? Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 09:58:03 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01CA39D8.D8031400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 090919-0, 09/19/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CA39D8.D8031400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Richard, Feed back from the racing chaps suggest heat cycles lead to coolant leak = - your flange sounds like a good idea in stopping any possible movement. George ( down under) On my one rotor, the P-Port insert is aluminum glued in with J-Bweld. = I have about 30hrs of run time under variable conditions including high = temperature like 230F cooling fluid. There was never a leak.=20 I believe that part of the secret is holding the insert in place by = other means than glue only. My insert has a flange on the outside, which = is bolted to the rotor housing via the intake manifold (Pictures). This is the way I retained the P-P for the flying engine because it = never caused any problem. FWIW. Richard Sohn N2071U=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 1:18 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: "P" ports (was) Three or two? Kelly, Sorry have no photo of the insert but it's simple enough. Just weld = the insert to the housing in the water jacket area and back-fill with = high temp resin - pressurize it if you wish, I probably will, just in = case. George ( down under) George, Interesting exchange on this subject again..............Jerry = Hey of this group is/was doing some "P" ports utilizing an aluminum insert.........I think a = sealant was then used for the rest of the cavity...........Have not heard from Jerry for a while = (jump in here if you are listening Jerry) but photos looked good.......Do you have access to any = photos from "Down Under" George showing the aluminum inserts and/or the same welded in = place ??............. =20 -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from "George Lendich" = : --------------=20 Bill, Good on Ya! I'm a bit behind my e-mails BTW. I have a great solution for the PP problems of leaking coolant. = I notice that PL advocates welding to the inner rotor steel liner - = however not much to weld to, and then pressurizes the resin filler. Now this is not my idea but it sis working well locally and that = is to weld a Al tube to the inner Al housing - weld it rights around and = then fill the remainder with resin. Seems to work much better than what = was done previously and ahs held up in well in racing applications.=20 George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: WRJJRS@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 5:06 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Three or two? Gonzalo, Sorry to be contrary, but in my opinion the ONLY way to go for = a flying rotary is P-port. All of the original Power Sport engines (the = Everette Hatch P.S.) ran P-ports. The manifolding for a P-port engine is = vastly easier. In fact Hatch and Steve Beckham built several engines = with P-ports that even ran reverse rotation so they could get proper = propeller rotation with some gearboxes. You can even P-port an Renesis = and it still works. The reason that Mazda isn't P-porting their race = cars has nothing to do with if P-porting is better, it is racing = organizations requirements. The reason for the side port Renesis is for = emissions and low RPM fuel economy. Those are areas that are only = important in a CAR. The typical aircraft runs 50% to 90% ALL THE TIME = and P-ports are much better at mid to high RPMS. The Mazda Le Mans = winning engine used P-ports and they were running with a fuel economy = formula. (the fuel was limited) For high output P-ports just work = better. Bill Jepson Gonzalo, A lot of people talk about peripheral porting rotaries but = nobody is doing it with a rotary that they plan to fly behind. If it = was such a good thing, Mazda would be P-Porting their cars. Instead = they are going away even from the peripheral port for the exhaust with = the Renesis. =20 If 200 HP will do it for you the Renesis is the way to go. = This process of putting an alternative engine in a plane is hard enough = without violating the KISS principle. Put in a Renesis, no turbo, no P-Port. Bill B =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 5:57 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Three or two? =20 Gonzalo, I don't know if the Renesis has a turbo version, I didn't = think it did. All turbo 13B's require low compression rotors. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.108/2383 - Release Date: = 09/19/09 17:50:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01CA39D8.D8031400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
 Richard,
Feed back from the racing chaps suggest = heat cycles=20 lead to coolant leak - your flange sounds like a good idea in stopping = any=20 possible movement.
George ( down under)
On my one rotor, the P-Port insert is = aluminum=20 glued in with J-Bweld. I have about 30hrs of run time under variable=20 conditions including high temperature like 230F cooling fluid. There = was never=20 a leak.
I believe that part of the secret is = holding the=20 insert in place by other means than glue only. My insert has a flange = on the=20 outside, which is bolted to the rotor housing via the intake manifold=20 (Pictures).
This is the way I retained the P-P = for the flying=20 engine because it never caused any problem.
 
FWIW.
 
Richard = Sohn
N2071U 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George=20 Lendich
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Saturday, September 19, = 2009 1:18=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: "P" = ports=20 (was) Three or two?

 Kelly,
Sorry have no photo of the insert = but it's=20 simple enough. Just weld the insert to the housing in the water = jacket area=20 and back-fill with high temp resin - pressurize it if you wish, I = probably=20 will, just in case.
George ( down under)
George,
     Interesting exchange on this subject = again..............Jerry Hey of this group is/was doing
some "P" ports utilizing an aluminum insert.........I think a = sealant=20 was then used for the rest
of the cavity...........Have not heard from Jerry for a while = (jump=20 in here if you are listening
Jerry) but photos looked good.......Do you have access to any = photos=20 from "Down Under"
George showing the aluminum inserts and/or the = same welded in=20 place ??.............  
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke = Delta"_13B=20 ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold=20



 
--------------=20 Original message from "George Lendich" = <lendich@aanet.com.au>:=20 --------------

Bill,
Good on Ya! I'm a bit behind my e-mails BTW.
 
I have a great solution for the PP problems of leaking = coolant. I=20 notice that PL advocates welding to the inner rotor steel liner = -=20 however not much to weld to, and then pressurizes the resin=20 filler.
Now this is not my idea but it sis working well locally and = that is=20 to weld a Al tube to the inner Al housing - weld it rights = around and=20 then fill the remainder with resin. Seems to work much better = than what=20 was done previously and ahs held up in well in racing=20 applications. 
George ( down under)
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 WRJJRS@aol.com
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Monday, September = 07, 2009=20 5:06 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Three or=20 two?

Gonzalo,
Sorry to be contrary, but in my opinion the ONLY way to = go for a=20 flying rotary is P-port. All of the original Power Sport = engines (the=20 Everette Hatch P.S.) ran P-ports. The manifolding for a P-port = engine=20 is vastly easier. In fact Hatch and Steve Beckham built = several=20 engines with P-ports that even ran reverse rotation so they = could get=20 proper propeller rotation with some gearboxes. You can even = P-port an=20 Renesis and it still works. The reason that Mazda isn't = P-porting=20 their race cars has nothing to do with if P-porting is better, = it is=20 racing organizations requirements. The reason for the side = port=20 Renesis is for emissions and low RPM fuel economy. Those are = areas=20 that are only important in a CAR. The typical aircraft runs = 50% to 90%=20 ALL THE TIME and P-ports are much better at mid to high RPMS. = The=20 Mazda Le Mans winning engine used P-ports and they were = running with a=20 fuel economy formula. (the fuel was limited) For high output=20 P-ports just work better.
Bill Jepson

Gonzalo,

A = lot of=20 people talk about peripheral porting rotaries but nobody is = doing it=20 with a rotary that they plan to fly behind.  If it was = such a=20 good thing, Mazda would be P-Porting their cars.  = Instead they=20 are going away even from the peripheral port for the exhaust = with=20 the Renesis. 

If 200 HP=20 will do it for you the Renesis is the way to go.  This = process=20 of putting an alternative engine in a plane is hard enough = without=20 violating the KISS principle.

Put in a=20 Renesis, no turbo, no P-Port.

Bill=20 B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent:=20 Sunday, August 23, 2009 5:57 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Three=20 or two?

 

Gonzalo,

I don't know = if the=20 Renesis has a turbo version, I didn't think it did. All=20 turbo 13B's require low compression=20 rotors.

 


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by = AVG -=20 www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.108/2383 - = Release=20 Date: 09/19/09 17:50:00

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