X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp104.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([68.142.229.101] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with SMTP id 3859196 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:38:33 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.229.101; envelope-from=downing.j@sbcglobal.net Received: (qmail 9558 invoked from network); 19 Sep 2009 01:37:57 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=DtVF9jEwS2Y+qBpr84vmnuC4TqlXEJI3sPEBRQXCMcWdZ09DFfNNDX6QC/hXoRGxl7RFQfWR2bnmwb4CiOTlzbBngHAt0rUNpR3t14d1wcSMkf4WBXgHCcXQEnfldAMTQSBoOtTCHjEx3fy5vrf6lg5fH8MFaVXLGZFfuUkzQMY= ; Received: from unknown (HELO JohnPC) (downing.j@76.210.117.18 with login) by smtp104.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 2009 01:37:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: aeofkEYVM1k72lqOdTixe6npgCkXQrXvW_VGxIWi5lBvn7FQRz9ECN_OxMr6J8BFobqJF_V6l8e6MoYQQKr4dj6Cur2iZwQmXHqXU4kh2jE56QWjrK.hsQrtI.Neld2WLORZb.cAKJazNer_rZLMMQmYOYDvCcJaAyvYPHeM8M7_7khWqOLZ7DB22UoY6ABsgud8BGmAgrMcAArsAxaggvyZEQaWaRE.yX5ku9bYZG.KvEioIK9n0nR5X.q6WI7S6REi4dcc9omHMjA99sznkA_WH5jFJrFv4PnczXtrtYPJCkP1m60TXTPhpS4qvp8Y8jLsbizWeEJERHZClzbpE08rc8dJrQ-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4EDBA13CDC56402A9258A9459AA5BD4E@JohnPC> From: "John" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Mixture Condition Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:37:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01CA38A8.4B0EC200" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18005 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18005 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CA38A8.4B0EC200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gentlemen, thankyou for your input. I talked with Bob White tonight and = he thought that the #1 primary injector may be sticking open and letting = the fuel run and keeping the engine running. Try doing that on a recip = engine and see how long the muffler lasts. Not sure how to check for = this condition, as when it finally stops, I turn on the LP pumps and = start the engine so the pressure on fuel injection doesn't bled to zero, = putting the fuel into the standing engine, then I let the fuel burn out = of the carb until it quits. In a few minutes it will start and run = normal again and will stop when you turn off the injectors and as it = gets hot again it repeats the cycle. =20 Does anyone know of a reasonable substitute for Mazda injectors, their = price is quit steep.=20 I can plug the fuel line to carb, but I don't believe that after 7 = hours of running that gas would start siphoning up to the carb and with = the fuel pump and injectors off it keeps running until the fuel pressure = gets down to 17#'s before it quits. The fuel pressure is holding a = steady 41 pounds when the engine is running normally. JohnD =20 From: Tracy Crook=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 4:57 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mixture Condition With such an odd assortment of symptoms I suspect that you may have = more than one problem. This is the hardest situation to diagnose = because fixing any one thing will not make it right, only change the = symptoms. If there IS a single problem, it is to be found by finding what makes = the engine run with all injectors disabled. This can't happen unless = there is a major problem somewhere. I would suggest fixing this first. = Tracy Crook On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 1:08 PM, John wrote: I have narrowed the mixture condition down to the fact that when it = starts to miss up I can keep it running poorly by turning the mixture = control down to minimum, but if I turn off the primary injectors switch = the engine appears to run okay, the secondary injector switch doesn't = seem to make any difference in the way it runs at 4000 rpm or idle. The = injector switches as well as the wiring harness I purchased from Bob and = all wires are soldered and covered with heat shrink. I checked the best = I can with a light and mirror and everything looks okey under the panel. = It runs the same, rather in mode A or B. On rereading the instructions = I see that the coil disable can only be checked in mode B, so I haven't = done that yet. =20 I turned of the fuel pump and with the injector switch's off the = engine continued to run until the fuel press was down to 17 pds. and = quit. I turned on the fuel pump (LP) to the Weber and it started = immediatly. This condition started at 7.2 on the hour meter. I really = now don't have any idea where to start looking for the problem. JohnD =20 ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CA38A8.4B0EC200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gentlemen, thankyou for your = input.  I talked=20 with Bob White tonight and he thought that the #1 primary injector may = be=20 sticking open and letting the fuel run and keeping the engine = running.  Try=20 doing that on a recip engine and see how long the muffler lasts.  = Not sure=20 how to check for this condition, as when it finally stops,  I turn = on the=20 LP pumps and start the engine so the pressure on fuel injection doesn't = bled to=20 zero, putting the fuel into the standing engine, then I let the fuel = burn out of=20 the carb until it quits.  In a few minutes it will start and run = normal=20 again and will stop when you turn off the injectors and as it gets hot = again it=20 repeats the cycle.          =
Does anyone know of a reasonable = substitute for=20 Mazda injectors, their price is quit steep. 
 I can plug the=20 fuel line to carb, but I don't believe that after 7 hours of running = that gas=20 would start siphoning up to the carb and with the fuel pump and = injectors off it=20 keeps running until the fuel pressure gets down to 17#'s before it = quits. =20 The fuel pressure is holding a steady 41 pounds when the engine is = running=20 normally.  JohnD 
From:=20 Tracy=20 Crook
Sent: Friday, September 18, = 2009 4:57=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Mixture=20 Condition

With such an odd assortment of symptoms I suspect that = you may=20 have more than one problem.  This is the hardest situation to = diagnose=20 because fixing any one thing will not make it right, only change the=20 symptoms.

If there IS a single problem, it is to be found by = finding=20 what makes the engine run with all injectors disabled.  This = can't=20 happen unless there is a major problem somewhere.  I would = suggest fixing=20 this first. 

Tracy Crook

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 1:08 PM, John <downing.j@sbcglobal.net>=20 wrote:
I have narrowed the mixture = condition down to=20 the fact that when it starts to miss up I can keep it running poorly = by=20 turning the mixture control down to minimum, but if I turn off the = primary=20 injectors switch the engine appears to run okay, the = secondary=20 injector switch doesn't seem to make any difference in the way it = runs at=20 4000 rpm or idle.  The injector switches as well as the wiring = harness=20 I purchased from Bob and all wires are soldered and covered with = heat=20 shrink.  I checked the best I can with a light and mirror and=20 everything looks okey under the panel.  It runs the same, = rather in=20 mode A or B.  On rereading the instructions I see that the coil = disable=20 can only be checked in mode B, so I haven't done that yet. =20
I turned of the fuel pump and with = the injector=20 switch's off the engine continued to run until the fuel press was = down to 17=20 pds. and quit.  I turned on the fuel pump (LP) to the Weber and = it=20 started immediatly.  This condition started at 7.2 on the hour=20 meter.  I really now don't have any idea where to start looking = for the=20 problem.  JohnD =20

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