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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Vinyl Ester tanks
From: Steve Thomas <glasair2@me.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-3857124@logan.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 06:51:15 -0700
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To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

George,

According to the information I have, butanol is not corrosive due to  
its larger hydrocarbon chain.  Check out the following link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanol_fuel

I recently spoke with a fellow that is trying to develop a biobutanol  
factory to produce it from biomass, mostly waste product and not  
foodstuffs.  He wants me to test his fuel.  Not likely, as flying for  
the first time has enough uncertainty without adding unnecessary  
variables.  But, it does have promise.

Best Regards,

Steve Thomas
_______________________________________________________


On Sep 17, 2009, at 12:42 AM, George Lendich wrote:

> Steve doesn't it go Methanol, Ethanol, Butanol in the BTU rating -  
> isn't it still a alcohol and isn't alcohol the thing that kills epoxy?
> George ( down under)
>
>> (sorry, but the chart mentioned below is too big.  If you want a  
>> copy, let me know and I'll email direct.)
>>
>> Yes, but there are many formulations of vinyl ester.  My entire   
>> airplane is made from vinyl ester, including the wet-wing gas  
>> tanks.   The formula used from the factory was Derakane 411-45.  I  
>> switched to  Derakane 411-350 some time later as it was a little  
>> more viscous and  wetted out better.  It was also easier to get.   
>> However, if you look  at the attached Derakane Chemical Resistance  
>> Guide, the 411 series is  not recommended for gasohol  
>> concentrations greater than 10% ethanol.   Since I cannot do  
>> anything about my tanks at this point, I am forced  to live with  
>> the limitations of Derakane 411.
>>
>> I don't know what the specifications are on the fiberglast resins,  
>> but those who use it ought to know.  For me, E85 is clearly not in  
>> the  cards. Another possible option is butanol.  There are some who  
>> are  experimenting with butanol as a 100% replacement for 100LL.   
>> It has  nearly the same octane rating as 100LL, and about 90% of  
>> the total  energy, per gallon, of gasoline.  Ethanol only has about  
>> 60% of the  energy, per gallon, of gasoline.  And butanol does  
>> require a different  air-fuel ratio.  It is also not corrosive in  
>> the same way as ethanol.
>>
>> So, my concern remains.  It looks like using gasohol with a 10%  
>> lace  of ethanol will be OK.  More than that, I'll be switching to  
>> 100LL.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Steve Thomas
>> _______________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Lynn Hanover wrote:
>>
>>> Or, what are the tanks holding E-85 made out of? About 75% alcohol
>>> .All of the underground fuel tanks are now Vinyl Ester.
>>>
>>> Lynn E. Hanover
>>
>>
>> --
>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
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