X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost05.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.55] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3834274 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:38:37 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.55; envelope-from=keltro@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; q=dns/txt; d=att.net; s=dkim01; i=keltro@att.net; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1251945518; h=Content-Type: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Date:Subject:To:From; bh=N8scag yzKW2ixPFnsYUwljKYaN/saT3LMe7x9492QvM=; b=IE+29aA3A9/ufG+4FgfJ4Kt6b RsRq9JdcnGm1gtleLoGeqiRgZnelAF96Pgv+m/iP9jGH2GM7jg3IvELwJVSHw== Received: from fwebmail17.isp.att.net ([204.127.221.117]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc05) with SMTP id <20090903023803H05003ebare>; Thu, 3 Sep 2009 02:38:03 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [204.127.221.117] Received: from [208.114.42.221] by fwebmail17.isp.att.net; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 02:38:03 +0000 From: "Kelly Troyer" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: Help for John Slade Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 02:38:03 +0000 Message-Id: <090320090238.24984.4A9F2C0B00060BC40000619822228869349B0A02D29B9B0EBF019D9B040A05@att.net> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: AT&T Message Center Version 1 (Mar 2 2009) X-Authenticated-Sender: a2VsdHJvQGF0dC5uZXQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24984_1251945483_0" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24984_1251945483_0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One other thought John..........Were your fuel pumps running without fuel w= hen the shutoff valves were closed ??.............If so I would monitor your fuel pressure = to determine if it is less than before the emergency landing.........It is my understanding that = high pressure pump life is measured in seconds if run dry............... -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from "Kelly Troyer" : -----= ---------=20 Great Ending to this story !!...............Since everyone of us has or wil= l have some difference in all of our important fuel , oil , electrical , etc systems th= at only the builder is aware of we all should carry in our ships block diagrams or sche= matics=20 of these systems for situations like this.......... It is easy to forget e= xactly (for me=20 anyway) what and where things are after many years building these airplanes= ...... IMHO Good Job getting the airplane on the ground John !!............... -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from Tracy Crook = : --------------=20 Just talked to John again. Engine emergency caused by clogged fuel filters= (John mentioned debris caused by some fuel tank work of some sort?). Saw= fuel pressure fluctuations on EM2 and increased EGTs then rpm started fall= ing. After landing, John found the clogged filters & cleaned them out. T= hat procedure called for closing a shutoff valve from the tanks. After cle= aning the filters, he forgot to turn the shutoff valves back on, hence the = failure to start. He eventually noticed that fuel pressure was super low a= nd that eventually jogged the memory of the shutoff valves. After openin= g them, the engine started immediately.=20=20 The RPM anomaly is still a mystery & I didn't think to ask him if that was = back to normal. I'm sure we will hear more later. I'm kind of amazed that= the engine still had good compression after 50 gallons of fuel with no oil= added was used.=20 Just random thoughts: I'm thinking I should cut back on the amount of oil= I add. I'm still accumulating 2 stroke in the crankcase when using 3/4 oz= per gallon of gas. Think I'll go to 1/2 oz / gal. on Renesis. Peripheral= exhaust port 13Bs need more oil than Renesis but 1 oz/gal is probably over= kill. Tracy On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:46 PM, David Leonard wrote: So what caused the evergency landing? Dave Leonard=20 On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Tracy Crook wrot= e: Called John to see if I could help. What a saga! Lots of indications th= at it is clogged fuel system somewhere but also some symptoms that occurred= simultaneously that make no sense at all (like a double rpm indication). = John says compression is good/normal in spite of two fuel stops with no oi= l added to gas (forgot). Engine was running normal at shutdown after emerg= ency landing but now won't start. Unfortunately John has none of the EC2 u= pgrades including ignition & injector diagnostics and has not tried checkin= g for spark while cranking since that is a 2 man job. I forgot to ask if = he had tried the backup on EC2 controller but I assume he did.=20=20 Tracy=20 On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Bulent Aliev = wrote: Guys, I just got a call from John Slade. He had to do an emergency landing = in Graystone 17FL (Ocala) FL. His engine will not start again, and he needs= someone with rotary experience to talk to. His cel # is 860-271-3941. Plea= se give him a call if you can help in any way. Buly Bulent Aliev --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24984_1251945483_0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24984_1251945483_1" --NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_24984_1251945483_1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One other thought John..........Were your fuel pumps running without f= uel when the shutoff
valves were closed ??.............If so I would monitor your fuel pres= sure to determine if it is
less than before the emergency landing.........It is my understanding = that high pressure pump
life is measured in seconds if run dry...............
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d



 
-------------- Original message from "Kelly Troyer" <kelt= ro@att.net>: --------------

Great Ending to this story !!...............Since everyone of us has o= r will have some
difference in all of our important fuel , oil , electrical , etc syste= ms that only the
builder is aware of we all should carry in our ships block diagrams or= schematics
of these systems for situations like this..........  It is easy t= o forget exactly (for me
anyway) what and where things are after many years building these airp= lanes......
 
IMHO
 
Good Job getting the airplane on the ground John !!...............
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_1= 3B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d



 
-------------- Original message from Tracy Crook <tracy@r= otaryaviation.com>: --------------

Just talked to John again.&nb= sp; Engine emergency caused by clogged fuel filters (John mentioned debris = caused by some fuel tank work of some sort?).   Saw fuel pressure fluc= tuations on EM2 and increased EGTs then rpm started falling.   After l= anding, John found the clogged filters & cleaned them out.  That p= rocedure called for closing a shutoff valve from the tanks.  After cle= aning the filters, he forgot to turn the shutoff valves back on, hence the = failure to start.  He eventually noticed that fuel pressure was super = low and that eventually jogged the memory of the shutoff valves.  &nbs= p; After opening them, the engine started immediately. 

The RP= M anomaly is still a mystery & I didn't think to ask him if that was ba= ck to normal.  I'm sure we will hear more later.  I'm kind of ama= zed that the engine still had good compression after 50 gallons of fuel wit= h no oil added was used.

Just random thoughts:   I'm thinking = I should cut back on the amount of oil I add.  I'm still accumulating = 2 stroke in the crankcase when using 3/4 oz per gallon of gas.  Think = I'll go to 1/2 oz / gal. on Renesis.  Peripheral exhaust port 13Bs nee= d more oil than Renesis but 1 oz/gal is probably overkill.

Tracy
=

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 8:46 PM, David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com<= /A>> wrote:
So what caused the eve= rgency landing?

Dave Leonard=20


On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Tracy Crook <t= racy@rotaryaviation.com> wrote:
Called John to see if = I could help.  What a saga!    Lots of indications that it i= s clogged fuel system somewhere but also some symptoms that occurred simult= aneously that make no sense at all (like a double rpm indication). &nb= sp; John says compression is good/normal in spite of two fuel stops with no= oil added to gas (forgot).  Engine was running normal at shutdown aft= er emergency landing but now won't start.  Unfortunately John has none= of the EC2 upgrades including ignition & injector diagnostics and has = not tried checking for spark while cranking since that is a 2 man job. = ;  I forgot to ask if he had tried the backup on EC2 controller but I = assume he did. 

Tracy=20


On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Bulent Aliev <bulent@enginegearonline.com> wrote:
Guys, I just got a cal= l from John Slade. He had to do an emergency landing in Graystone 17FL (Ocala) FL. His engine will not start again, and he needs someone= with rotary experience to talk to. His cel # is 860-271-3941. Please give = him a call if you can help in any way.
Buly
Bulent Aliev





= --
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net<= /A>

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