X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from col0-omc2-s2.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.76] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.15) with ESMTP id 3791978 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 02 Aug 2009 00:50:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.34.76; envelope-from=momsblacksheep@msn.com Received: from COL109-W46 ([65.55.34.72]) by col0-omc2-s2.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:47:35 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: momsblacksheep@msn.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_3f760e34-bc49-4852-ba62-3f4c03e21c9c_" X-Originating-IP: [76.28.141.211] From: Steve Parkins To: flyrotary Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 21:47:36 -0700 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Aug 2009 04:47:35.0865 (UTC) FILETIME=[5AF00A90:01CA132C] --_3f760e34-bc49-4852-ba62-3f4c03e21c9c_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ross was not what i want=2C i need/want the same as al only cheeper. steve parkins =20 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net From: eanderson@carolina.rr.com Date: Fri=2C 31 Jul 2009 13:30:10 -0400 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination Steve=2C if you have a 20B I would be very hesitant to use a Ross Redrive (= in fact I would NOT). =20 I had a Ross unit and flew for about 160 hours before I switched over to RW= S gearbox. The problem was when I increased the power of my engine from ar= ound 140-150 to around 170 - 180 HP=2C I found the sun gear gauling. The= Ross is know to have marginal lubrication=2C no thrust bearing (so your en= gine thrust bearing is force to carry the load =96 which it several times w= hat it was designed to carry) and the rear seal can be a persistent source = of oil leak. There have been some that have lasted much longer and some wh= ich have lasted less than 100 hours. If I had a 120-140 HP project it migh= t be worth try=2C but with a 20B=2C I personally think you would be wasting= time and money trying to use a Ross drive. Some folks have had them modif= ied to put in a thrust bearing=2C but that is just throwing good money afte= r more good money. A good thing to do IF you insist on using a Ross=2C but = personally I would get RWS C drive and go with that. =20 But=2C that is just my personal opinion based on experience with one Ross d= rive and what I have heard about them over the years. =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews=2C NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Steve Parkins Sent: Thursday=2C July 30=2C 2009 9:47 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination =20 looking for a used redrive or one that can be fixed or rebuilt ???? any one= ?? new one 90days same as cash ?=20 steve parkins =20 =20 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net From: btilley@mchsi.com Date: Thu=2C 30 Jul 2009 11:53:06 +0000 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination Steve=2C =20 Bob Tilley here. I agree with Ed. I built my engine on our temp firewall m= ounted in the back of my pickup truck. This way I could "see" how everythin= g was going to look. It helped a little. I still need to redo some of the i= tem I spent a lot of time on now that the engine is on the plane. As far as= an intake=2C You will need to build your own! there are no working off th= e shelf parts. Bring the runners out of the block into a plenum and attach = the throttle body as close as possible. You can get more power with a reall= y good manifold=2C but it will cost a lot of money and time to make. Your 2= 0b is enough for any Cozy. Adding 5 or 10 hp is not worth the effort!!!!!!!= been there=2C done that. =20 Bob =20 -------------- Original message from "Ed Anderson" : --------------=20 Steve=2C I would buy a PSRU next =96 then with the motor mount=2C the engi= ne and the PSRU you have the length of your cowl and most of the space laid= out under cowl =96 well=2C a lot of it any way. Then you can start making= decisions about what else will now fit =96 like radiators=2C oil cooler et= c. I don=92t think you can effectively plan for the other stuff under the = cowl until you have those three major components in place. =20 =20 Just my 0.02 worth =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews=2C NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Steve Parkins Sent: Wednesday=2C July 29=2C 2009 6:50 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination =20 just crawling here=2C would like to walk. sorry for the dumb questions in advance ! i have a fw=2Cmount=2Cold 20b=2Cintake. what would you buy next ?=20 i kinda work with 500 a month but have 1000 to spend a month =2Cso you can = see my dilemma. =20 steve parkins =20 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net From: lendich@aanet.com.au Date: Thu=2C 30 Jul 2009 07:10:57 +1000 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination Ed=2C Would your EFISM be advantageous to a carb set-up or do you have to have th= e electronics of the EC2 and sensors etc. George (down under) =20 Thanks for the kind words about the EFISM=2C Jeff. I think most folks will= find that being able to graphically see their fuel MAP/MCT makes it much e= asier to understand what your engine is doing and how well your MAP is adju= sted =96 the only two units offered that are capable of doing this (that = I am aware of) Is Tracy=92s RWL excellent EM2/3 system and my EFISM. Either one will prov= ide this capability.=20 =20 You can certainly tune and fly safely without either of these units to moni= tor/adjust your MAP =96 I did it for years. However=2C I never could elimi= nate my staging bog (for example) until I watch the air/fuel ratio indicato= r and the fuel MAP as the engine operating point approached the staging poi= nt. For whatever the reason=2C my A/F ratio would take a nose dive toward= the lean side just before staging =96 causing a temporary (but annoying) h= esitation or bog. Using the graphical display I began increasing the richn= ess of each bin as the A/F indicated lean and advance bin by bin making th= is adjustment until after increasing 4-6 bins just before the staging point= =2C my staging bog has completely disappeared. =20 It is also difficult (at least for me) to try to tune the EC2 by advancing = the manifold pressure =BD=94 Hg at a time to activate each bin. I also fo= und (using the EFISM)=2C that when I adjusted the value of the bin my engin= e was operating on =96 that change (rich or lean) invariably cause the engi= ne to change operating conditions =96 just enough so that it would shift to= the adjacent bin or two =96 so I was no longer tuning the same bin as a mo= ment before. I know some can do it by hear =96 Tracy for example =96 but= =2C for me visual was much easier to do. =20 In any case whether Tracy=92s EM2/3 or my EFISM =96 I think most will find = a graphical representation easier to work with. =20 Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews=2C NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Wednesday=2C July 29=2C 2009 9:05 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination =20 The following is an excerpt from a Mike Wills post several months ago: =20 =93Anyone trying to tune up Tracy's EC2 without either having an EM2/3 or E= d Anderson's EFISM=2C you're wasting your time. I spent the better part of = a year tweaking the MAP table and thought I had it pretty well done. On my = first flight I spent a fair amount of time fiddling with mixtures and had a= couple of rough running spots. I installed Ed's EFISM and spent 2 days twe= aking. In the process I got the engine running smoother than it ever has an= d now have it is idling nicely at 1350 RPM. That=92s 300 RPM lower than I w= as ever able to get it previously. In my opinion you really HAVE to have so= me sort of indication of what is loaded in the MAP table to effectively tun= e it.=94 =20 I whole-heartedly agree!! I installed ED=92s EFISM last night and was anxio= us to see my MCT =96 let=92s just say it was a mess. There were a few point= s=2C mostly around the staging area=2C where I could see that some tuning h= ad taken place=3B however=2C there were several locations with wild swings = from one bin to the next. These wild variations appeared in the middle of t= he high rpm band where the engine has spent very little time=2C as I=92m us= ually near idle or WOT =96 but man it sure is nice to actually see what=92s= going on. Jeff __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus=2C version of virus signat= ure database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com =20 NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus=2C version of virus signat= ure database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com =20 NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus=2C version of virus signat= ure database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your vacation photos on your phone! http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=3D0809TL-HM= --_3f760e34-bc49-4852-ba62-3f4c03e21c9c_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ross was not what i want=2C i need/want the same as al
only cheeper.


steve parkins



 =3B
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
From: eanderson@carolina.rr.com
Date:= Fri=2C 31 Jul 2009 13:30:10 -0400
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's= EFISM - a great combination

Steve=2C if you = have a 20B I would be very hesitant to use a Ross Redrive (in fact I would = NOT).

 =3B<= /FONT>

I had a Ross uni= t and flew for about 160 hours before I switched over to RWS gearbox. = =3B The problem was when I increased the power of my engine from around 140= -150 =3B to around 170 =3B - 180 HP=2C I found the sun gear gauling= . =3B The Ross is know to have marginal lubrication=2C no thrust bearin= g (so your engine thrust bearing is force to carry the load =96 which it se= veral times what it was designed to carry) and the rear seal can be a persi= stent source of oil leak. =3B There have been some that have lasted muc= h longer and some which have lasted less than 100 hours. =3B If I had a= 120-140 HP project it might be worth try=2C but with a 20B=2C I personally= think you would be wasting time and money trying to use a Ross drive. = =3B Some folks have had them modified to put in a thrust bearing=2C but tha= t is just throwing good money after more good money. A good thing to do IF = you insist on using a Ross=2C but personally I would get RWS C drive and go= with that.

 =3B<= /FONT>

But=2C that is j= ust my personal opinion based on experience with one Ross drive and what I = have heard about them over the years.

 =3B<= /FONT>

Ed=

 =3B<= /FONT>

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t] On Behalf Of Steve Parki= ns
Sent: Thursday=2C Jul= y 30=2C 2009 9:47 PM
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject:= [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination=

 =3B


looking for a used redrive or one th= at can be fixed or rebuilt ???? any one ??
new one 90days same as cash ?=

steve = parkins




 =3B

 =3B

To: flyr= otary@lancaironline.net
From: btilley@mchsi.com
Date: Thu=2C 30 Jul 2= 009 11:53:06 +0000
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great= combination

Steve=2C

 =3B

 =3BBob Tilley here. I agree with Ed= . I built my engine on our temp firewall mounted in the back of my pickup t= ruck. This way I could "see" how everything was going to look. It helped a = little. I still need to redo some of the item I spent a lot of time on now = that the engine is on the plane. =3BAs far as an intake=2C =3BYou w= ill need to build your own!  =3Bthere are no working off the shelf part= s. Bring the runners out of the block into a plenum and attach the throttle= body as close as possible. You can get more power with a really good manif= old=2C but it will cost a lot of money and time to make. Your 20b is enough= for any Cozy. Adding 5 or 10 hp is not worth the effort!!!!!!!  =3Bbee= n there=2C done that.

 =3B

Bob

 =3B

--------= ------ Original message from "Ed Anderson" <=3Beanderson@carolina.rr.com&= gt=3B: --------------

Steve=2C =3B= I would buy a PSRU next =96 then with the motor mount=2C the engine and th= e PSRU you have the length of your cowl and most of the space laid out unde= r cowl =96 well=2C a lot of it any way. =3B Then you can start making d= ecisions about what else will now fit =96 like radiators=2C oil cooler etc.=  =3B I don=92t think you can effectively plan for the other stuff under= the cowl until you have those three major components in place. =3B

 =3B<= /FONT>

Just my 0.02 wor= th

 =3B<= /FONT>

Ed=

 =3B<= /FONT>

Ed And= erson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
<= /SPAN>Matthews=2C NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.dmack.net/mazda= /index.html
ht= tp://www.flyrotary.com/
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/co= nfigs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm<= A href=3D"http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html">

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t] On Behalf Of Steve Parki= ns
Sent: Wednesday=2C Ju= ly 29=2C 2009 6:50 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject= : [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination

 =3B

just crawling here=2C would like to walk= .
sorry for the dumb questions in advance !
i have a fw=2Cmount=2Cold= 20b=2Cintake.
what would you buy next ?

i kinda work with 500 a= month but have 1000 to spend a month =2Cso you can see my dilemma.

=  =3B

steve = parkins




 =3B

To: flyr= otary@lancaironline.net
From: lendich@aanet.com.au
Date: Thu=2C 30 Ju= l 2009 07:10:57 +1000
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a gr= eat combination

Ed=2C=

Would your EFISM be advantageous to a carb s= et-up or do you have to have the electronics of the EC2 and sensors etc.

George (down under)

 =3B

Thanks for the k= ind words about the EFISM=2C Jeff. =3B I think most folks will find tha= t being able to graphically see their fuel MAP/MCT makes it much easier to = understand what your engine is doing and how well your MAP is adjusted &nbs= p=3B=96 the only two units offered  =3Bthat are capable of doing this (= that I am aware of)

Is Tracy=92s RWL= excellent EM2/3 system and my EFISM. =3B Either one will provide this = capability.

 =3B<= /FONT>

You can certainl= y tune and fly safely without either of these units to monitor/adjust your = MAP =96 I did it for years. =3B However=2C I never could eliminate my s= taging bog (for example) until I watch the air/fuel ratio indicator and the= fuel MAP as the engine operating point approached the staging point. = =3B For whatever the reason=2C my A/F ratio  =3Bwould take a nose dive = toward the lean side just before staging =96 causing a temporary (but annoy= ing) hesitation or bog. =3B Using the graphical display I began increas= ing the richness of each bin as the A/F indicated lean and  =3Badvance = bin by bin making this adjustment until after increasing 4-6 bins just befo= re the staging point=2C my staging bog has completely disappeared.

 =3B<= /FONT>

It is also diffi= cult (at least for me) to try to tune the EC2 by advancing the manifold pre= ssure =BD=94 Hg  =3Bat a time to activate each bin. =3B I also foun= d (using the EFISM)=2C that when I adjusted the value of the bin my engine = was operating on =96 that change (rich or lean) invariably cause the engine= to change operating conditions =96 just enough so that it would shift to t= he adjacent bin or two =96 so I was no longer tuning the same bin as a mome= nt before. =3B I know some can do it by hear =96 Tracy for example =96 = but=2C for me visual was much easier to do.=

 =3B<= /FONT>

In any case whet= her Tracy=92s EM2/3 or my EFISM =96 I think most will find a graphical repr= esentation easier to work with.=

 =3B<= /FONT>

Ed=

Ed And= erson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
<= /SPAN>Matthews=2C NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.dmack.net/mazda= /index.html
ht= tp://www.flyrotary.com/
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/co= nfigs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm<= A href=3D"http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html">

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley=
Sent: Wednesday=2C July= 29=2C 2009 9:05 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject:<= /SPAN> [FlyRotary] EC2 and Ed's EFISM - a great combination

 =3B=

The follow= ing is an excerpt from a Mike Wills post several months ago:<= FONT size=3D2 face=3DVerdana>

 =3B

=93Anyone trying to tune up Tracy's EC2 with= out either having an EM2/3 or Ed Anderson's EFISM=2C you're wasting your ti= me. I spent the better part of a year tweaking the MAP table and thought I = had it pretty well done. On my first flight I spent a fair amount of time f= iddling with mixtures and had a couple of rough running spots. I installed = Ed's EFISM and spent 2 days tweaking. In the process I got the engine runni= ng smoother than it ever has and now have it is idling nicely at 1350 RPM. = That=92s 300 RPM lower than I was ever able to get it previously. In my opi= nion you really =3BHAVE to have some sort of indication of what is load= ed in the MAP table to effectively tune it.=94

 =3B

I whole-he= artedly agree!! I installed ED=92s EFISM last night and was anxious to see = my MCT =96 let=92s just say it was a mess. There were a few points=2C mostl= y around the staging area=2C where I could see that some tuning had taken p= lace=3B however=2C there were several locations with wild swings from one b= in to the next. These wild variations appeared in the middle of the high rp= m band where the engine has spent very little time=2C as I=92m usually near= idle or WOT =96 but man it sure is nice to actually see what=92s going on.=

Jeff



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivir= us=2C version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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 =3B

NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR p= hone. Click here.

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