X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from col0-omc2-s7.col0.hotmail.com ([65.55.34.81] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3643858 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 15 May 2009 23:34:18 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.55.34.81; envelope-from=momsblacksheep@msn.com Received: from COL109-W20 ([65.55.34.73]) by col0-omc2-s7.col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Fri, 15 May 2009 20:33:43 -0700 Message-ID: Return-Path: momsblacksheep@msn.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_2d7ab6ea-e40b-4ec9-bcda-4f967f302c97_" X-Originating-IP: [131.191.68.19] From: Steve Parkins To: flyrotary Subject: 20b intake help Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:33:43 -0700 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 May 2009 03:33:43.0678 (UTC) FILETIME=[1CED79E0:01C9D5D7] --_2d7ab6ea-e40b-4ec9-bcda-4f967f302c97_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i have done two now and it is heavy 18 pds with TB. the tb is 7 pds. a lot of wight was in the making of primary/secondary air. my question is=2C do i need to split the air ? could i just go with a big T= B and 6 inlets (plz read sds web site) rvjguy@ canard forum thanks in advance steve parkins =20 From: flyrotary@lancaironline.net To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: flyrotary Digest #2459 Date: Wed=2C 13 May 2009 06:00:15 -0400 Rotary motors in aircraft Digest #2459 =20 1) Re: Initial Tuning - Today by James Maher 2) Re: Starter Problem \ Question by Jeff Whaley 3) Re: Initial Tuning - Today by James Maher 4) Re: Initial Tuning - Today by Mark Steitle 5) Fuel Pressure Regulator \ Vacuum Leak by "Bobby J. Hughes" 6) UMA Tach by "John" 7) Re: UMA Tach by "Ed Anderson" 8) Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator \ Vacuum Leak by "Al Gietzen" =20 This digest is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list . To unsubscribe=2C E-mail to: To switch to the FEED mode=2C E-mail to Send administrative queries to =20 --Forwarded Message Attachment-- Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009 06:56:11 -0700 From: delta11xd@att.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today Mike=2C One way to test for intake manifold leaks is to pinch off hoses one by one = while the engine is running to see if RPM decreases. You could also remove = the each hose at the manifold an plug the inlet. Also be sure that the inta= ke manifold gasket and throttle body gasket are sealing good and that all b= olts are tight. Jim =20 --- On Mon=2C 5/11/09=2C Mike Fontenot w= rote: From: Mike Fontenot Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Monday=2C May 11=2C 2009=2C 3:50 PM =3D=3D=3D JIM=2C I will look at what kinds of adjustments I can make on the Throttle Body. W= ow=2C that is low RPM!. I had no idea. Problem is I don't know what I don't= know.=20 >>> 1. Manifold leak - if this is the case it should be found and fixed bef= ore any tuning is continued. Check all hoses and fittings on the intake man= ifold and throttle body. Check that the throttle is closing all the way. It= may need adjustment. <<< What technique do you use for leak detection? >>>2. Idle setting on throttle body not properly set. If the throttle body = has a idle speed setting screw (allows air after the throttle plate) try to turn it to reduce the id= le.<<< I will look for that. Thanks again --=20 Mike =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mike Fontenot Apex Consulting & Services LLC Lakewood=2C Colorado 303 / 731-6645 mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: jwhaley@datacast.com Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009 07:06:27 -0700 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Starter Problem \ Question Bobby=2C I have seen similar problems with contactors/relays in the past=2C specifically the automotive starter relays that are chassis gro= unded and require +12V to activate the relay =85 if the +12V (battery voltage) is weak these relays will stick ON. In my case=2C the starter would stay engag= ed so there was no doubt about what was happening but the engine was not running = =85 in your case with the engine running you may not be able tell. Why don=92t you run the starter for a second or two=2C but do not let the engine start (turn fuel off for example) then check your amp me= ter after disengage? Jeff =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Tuesday=2C May 12=2C 2009 12:36 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Starter Problem \ Question =20 Is it possible for a starter to keep drawing current after engine start withou= t being engaged to the starter wheel? I was seeing a 38A draw today during ground runs with only fuel=2C spark=2C EM2/3 and engine monitor turned on. = Normally I see about 15A in this condition. During ground runs last week and running on my backup battery\ wiring I popped an 80A ANL fuse several minutes after engine start. At the time I suspected a hot polyfuse in a crowbar circuit for the alternator triggered the event. A= fter studying my wiring diagram I determined the crowbar opening could not cause= the fuse to fail. The only item capable of blowing this fuse is the starter. Th= e starter coil wire is in parallel with a firewall contactor coil wire. Both coil wires go to a starter switch fused at 10A. I suspect a starter problem= is keeping voltage on the coil lead and keeping the firewall contactor closed after engine start. My firewall contactor is not the usually starter contactor with the small wiring terminal for the starter. It's a convention= al contactor but rated for high current. This may be part of the problem. If the starter checks out then I will use a DC amp meter on the starter lead. = I may also add a run-on light to the coil leads. =20 Any input would be appreciated. =20 Bobby =20 --Forwarded Message Attachment-- Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009 07:07:22 -0700 From: delta11xd@att.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today Mike=2C Are you using the right fuel injector for your application? Such large jumps may be due to improper injector sizing. The Geo engine is a fuel sipper rather than a gas guzzler so it would requi= re an injector that can meter fuel much more precisely. Just a thought. Jim --- On Mon=2C 5/11/09=2C Mike Fontenot w= rote: From: Mike Fontenot Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Monday=2C May 11=2C 2009=2C 11:35 PM Tracy=2C >>All good except for (again) the MAP increasing. My guess is that you As= sumed that the MAP went up when the RPM went up. This does not happen und= er these circumstances without increasing the throttle. See previous comme= nts on this. Think of the engine as a vacuum pump (it is). If you do some= thing to make the engine (vacuum pump) turn faster WITHOUT opening the thro= ttle more=2C the MAP is going to go DOWN (more vacuum)=2C not UP=2C as the = engine sucks more air through the same restriction.<< Right=2C yes I probably did assume that when the RPM went up so did the MAP= . Good explanation=2C I'll be sure to observe that next engine run. Its not= Cold Fusion (power de novo). >>Are you saying that the MI jumps around (up and down?) all the time=2C wh= en you move the mixture control=2C random direction when you move the mix = control=2C or what? Position of O2 sensor (too close to end of pipe=2C too cold a position=2C etc)=2C exhaust = leaks=2C engine miss=2C bad connections=2C poor ground=2C and other things = can cause bad indications. << When I was in Mode 3=2C and adjusting the mixture knob=2C the direction of = change of the Mixture Knob and the increase and decrease of the Mixture Ind= icator were in the same direction. It was just that what I thought was a sm= all change on the Knob resulted in a big change on the Mixture Indicator. S= ame when using the Program KNob and Store button. One push to increase inje= ctor flow rate there could make the Mixture Indicator go from position 3 of= 16 to 11 of 16. Movement of the Mixture Indicator always tracked the Mix= ture Knob or changes via the Program Knob=2C but I was expecting smooth in= creases. And in Mode 3 that generally did not happy=2C they were larger cha= nges. I hate to use this term but 'twitchy'. Again=2C I will run it up aga= in and watch=2C note these specific things. =20 I might try checking the wiring and putting a ground strap on the O2 sensor= as a first attempt.=20 --=20 Mike =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mike Fontenot Apex Consulting & Services LLC Lakewood=2C Colorado 303 / 731-6645 mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --Forwarded Message Attachment-- Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009 09:20:53 -0500 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today From: msteitle@gmail.com Jim=2C=20 =20 I've had good luck finding vacuum leaks using WD-40. With the engine runni= ng=2C spray WD-40 around the intake gasket and other places you suspect a l= eak. Since WD-40 is flammable=2C the engine will change speed if it sucks = some liquid into the intake. If the engine speed changes=2C you've found y= our leak. For safety purposes=2C and to keep the WD-40 from spraying you i= n the face=2C you may want to remove the prop. =20 Another way to diagnose engine problems is with a vacuum gauge. See http:/= /autospeed.com/cms/title_Using-a-Vacuum-Gauge-for-Engine-Diagnostics/A_2393= /article.html Mark S. =20 On Tue=2C May 12=2C 2009 at 8:56 AM=2C James Maher wrot= e: Mike=2C One way to test for intake manifold leaks is to pinch off hoses one by one = while the engine is running to see if RPM decreases. You could also remove = the each hose at the manifold an plug the inlet. Also be sure that the inta= ke manifold gasket and throttle body gasket are sealing good and that all b= olts are tight. Jim =20 --- On Mon=2C 5/11/09=2C Mike Fontenot w= rote: From: Mike Fontenot Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Monday=2C May 11=2C 2009=2C 3:50 PM =3D=3D=3D JIM=2C I will look at what kinds of adjustments I can make on the Throttle Body. W= ow=2C that is low RPM!. I had no idea. Problem is I don't know what I don't= know.=20 >>> 1. Manifold leak - if this is the case it should be found and fixed bef= ore any tuning is continued. Check all hoses and fittings on the intake man= ifold and throttle body. Check that the throttle is closing all the way. It= may need adjustment. <<< What technique do you use for leak detection? >>>2. Idle setting on throttle body not properly set. If the throttle body = has a idle speed setting screw (allows air after the throttle plate) try to turn it to reduce the id= le.<<< I will look for that. Thanks again --=20 Mike =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mike Fontenot Apex Consulting & Services LLC Lakewood=2C Colorado 303 / 731-6645 mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --Forwarded Message Attachment-- Subject: Fuel Pressure Regulator \ Vacuum Leak Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009 19:11:19 -0600 From: bhughes@qnsi.net I reinstalled my EC2 yesterday after a=20 few changes by Tracy. I immediately discovered a new problem. The lowest MA= P=20 address being used was 62 and both primary and secondary injectors fired at= all=20 MP and RPM. With Tracy on the phone and Dennis H supervising my efforts we = found=20 a small vacuum leak at the Aeromotive A1000-6 fuel pressure regulator. Afte= r=20 switching the two MP tubes between A&B controllers the A controller starter= =20 working as expected. The EC2 staged properly with lower MAP addresses being= =20 accessed. When reinstalling the EC2 I had switch the MP tubes from my usual= =20 configuration. A couple of weeks ago I had noticed my B controller was not= =20 working as expected. I had to continually adjust the mixture to keep the en= gine=20 running. Now I know why. What was unexpected is one MP tube is used for the= =20 fuel pressure regulator=2C B Controller and my Advanced EFIS engine monitor= . The=20 Advanced engine monitor was not affected by the slight leak. On the other h= and=20 the EM3 did see the leak and was showing static pressure regardless of=20 MP. Here is a note from the Aeromotive web site.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 NOTE: Testing=20 the enclosed regulator by applying air pressure or vacuum to the vacuum por= t=20 with a hand-held pump will yield poor results=2C=20 due to the slight air leakage through the adjustment screw threads. This minute leakage=2C which is=20 typical of all adjustable fuel pressure regulators=2C does not=2C in any way=2C affect the performance of the=20 regulator. =20 Bobby=20 Hughes =20 --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: downing.j@sbcglobal.net Subject: UMA Tach Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009 21:35:39 -0400 A great big thanks goes out to Bob=2C Ed and Jeff for=20 the effort these gentlemen put in on a solution to my tach condition. I=20 ordered the tach from UMA today=2C which is part number 19-51A-201=2C which= is a=20 7=2C000 rpm tach=2C 2 1/4" dia.=2C which will operate on the 5v signal to o= ne LS-1=20 coil. Price is $141.00. Phone number for UMA is 1-800/842-5578=2C in=20 case anyone is looking for an analog tach in 2 1/4 or 3 1/8th" size. =20 Another plus for UMA=2C it is made in Virginia=2C Good Ole USA. =20 JohnD --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: eanderson@carolina.rr.com Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] UMA Tach Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009 22:11:28 -0400 You=92re Welcome=2C John =20 That=92s what this list is all about =96 helping each to get those rotaries airborne. =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews=2C NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of John Sent: Tuesday=2C May 12=2C 2009 9:36 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] UMA Tach =20 A great big thanks goes out to Bob=2C Ed and Jeff for the effort these gentlemen put in on a solution to my tach condition. I ordered the tach from UMA today=2C which is part number 19-51A-201=2C which= is a 7=2C000 rpm tach=2C 2 1/4" dia.=2C which will operate on the 5v signal to o= ne LS-1 coil. Price is $141.00. Phone number for UMA is 1-800/842-5578=2C in case anyone is looking for an analog tach in 2 1/4 or = 3 1/8th" size. Another plus for UMA=2C it is made in Virginia=2C Good Ole US= A.=20 JohnD __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus=2C version of virus signat= ure database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus=2C version of virus signat= ure database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com --Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: ALVentures@cox.net Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Fuel Pressure Regulator \ Vacuum Leak Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009 22:21:21 -0800 Here is a note from the Aeromotive web site.=20 =20 . . . .This minute leakage=2C which is typical of all adjustable fuel pressure regulators=2C d= oes not=2C in any way=2C affect the performance of the regulator. Maybe it is typical of all Aeromotive pressure regulators=3B but my TWM adj= ustable regulator is T=92d off the line to controller B=2C and has worked fine for four years with no leakage. Al G _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut= orial_WhatsNew1_052009= --_2d7ab6ea-e40b-4ec9-bcda-4f967f302c97_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i have done two now and it is heavy 18 pds with TB. the tb is 7 pds.
a lot of wight was in the making of primary/secondary air.
my question is=2C do i need to split the air ? could i just go with a big T= B and 6 inlets
(plz read sds web site) rvjguy@ canard forum =3B thanks in advance
<= BR>
steve parkins



 =3B
From: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.netSubject: flyrotary Digest #2459
Date: Wed=2C 13 May 2009 06:00:15 -0400= 

        Rotary motors in aircraft Digest #2459
 
 1) Re:=
 Initial Tuning - Today
    by James Maher <=3Bdelta11xd@att.net>=3B=

 2) Re: Starter Problem \ Question
    by Jeff Whaley <=3Bjwhaley@=
datacast.com>=3B
 3) Re: Initial Tuning - Today
    by James Maher =
<=3Bdelta11xd@att.net>=3B
 4) Re: Initial Tuning - Today
    by M=
ark Steitle <=3Bmsteitle@gmail.com>=3B
 5) Fuel Pressure Regulator \=
 Vacuum Leak
    by "Bobby J. Hughes" <=3Bbhughes@qnsi.net>=3B
 6=
) UMA Tach
    by "John" <=3Bdowning.j@sbcglobal.net>=3B
 7) Re: =
UMA Tach
    by "Ed Anderson" <=3Beanderson@carolina.rr.com>=3B
 =
8) Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator \ Vacuum Leak
    by "Al Gietzen" <=3BA=
LVentures@cox.net>=3B
 
This digest is sent to you because you are =
subscribed to
  the mailing list <=3Bflyrotary@lancaironline.net>=3B=
.
To unsubscribe=2C E-mail to: <=3Bflyrotary-off@lancaironline.net>=
=3B
To switch to the FEED mode=2C E-mail to <=3Bflyrotary-feed@lancair=
online.net>=3B
Send administrative queries to  <=3Bflyrotary-request=
@lancaironline.net>=3B


--Forwarded Message Attachme= nt--
Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009 06:56:11 -0700
From: delta11xd@att.net<= BR>Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today

Mike=2C

One way to test for intake manifold leaks is to pinch off hoses one by= one while the engine is running =3Bto see if =3BRPM decreases. You= could also remove the each hose at the manifold an plug the inlet. Also be= sure that the intake manifold gasket and throttle body gasket are sealing = good and that all bolts are tight.

Jim

 =3B



--- On Mon=2C 5/11/09=2C Mike Fontenot <=3Bmikef@apexc= onsultingservices.com>=3B wrote:

From: Mike Fontenot <=3Bmikef@apexconsultin= gservices.com>=3B
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today
T= o: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <=3Bflyrotary@lancaironline.net>=3B
D= ate: Monday=2C May 11=2C 2009=2C 3:50 PM


=3D=3D=3D JIM=2C

I will look at what kinds= of adjustments I can make on the Throttle Body. Wow=2C that is low RPM!. I= had no idea. Problem is I don't know what I don't know.


>=3B>=3B>=3B 1. Manifold leak - if this is the case it should be= found and fixed before any tuning is continued. Check all hoses and fittin= gs on the intake manifold and throttle body. Check that the throttle is clo= sing all the way. It may need adjustment. <=3B<=3B<=3B

What te= chnique do you use for leak detection?


>=3B>=3B>=3B2. Idle setting on throttle body not properly set. I= f the throttle body has a idle speed setting

screw (allows air after the throttle plate) try to turn it to reduce t= he idle.<=3B<=3B<=3B

I will look for that.


Thanks a= gain

--
Mike

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mike Fonten= ot
Apex Consulting &=3B Services LLC
Lakewood=2C Colorado
303 /= 731-6645
mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D


--Forwarded Mes= sage Attachment--
From: jwhaley@datacast.com
Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009= 07:06:27 -0700
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Starter Problem \ Question
<= BR>














Bobby=2C I have seen similar proble= ms with contactors/relays in
the past=2C specifically the automotive sta= rter relays that are chassis grounded
and require +12V to activate the r= elay =85 if the +12V (battery voltage) is
weak these relays will stick O= N. In my case=2C the starter would stay engaged so
there was no doubt ab= out what was happening but the engine was not running =85
in your case w= ith the engine running you may not be able tell.



Why don=92t you run the starter for= a second or two=2C but do
not let the engine start (turn fuel off for e= xample) then check your amp meter
after disengage? =3B Jeff

 =3B



From: Rotary motors in
aircraft [mailto:= flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J.
Hughes

= Sent: Tuesday=2C May 12=2C 2009 12:36 AM

To: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Starter Problem \ Quest= ion



 =3B





Is
it possible for a starter to keep drawing current= after engine start without
being engaged to the starter wheel? I = =3Bwas seeing a 38A draw today during
ground runs with only fuel=2C spar= k=2C EM2/3 and engine monitor turned on. Normally
I see about 15A in thi= s condition. During ground runs last week
and =3Brunning on my backu= p battery\ wiring I popped an 80A =3BANL
fuse =3Bseveral minutes= after engine start. =3BAt the time I suspected a
hot polyfuse in a = crowbar circuit =3Bfor the alternator triggered the event. =3BAfter=
studying my wiring diagram I determined the crowbar opening could not c= ause the
fuse to fail. The only item capable of blowing this fuse is the= starter. The
starter coil wire is in parallel with a =3Bfirewall co= ntactor coil wire. Both
coil wires go to a starter switch fused at 10A. = I suspect a starter problem is
keeping voltage on the coil lead and keep= ing the firewall contactor closed
after engine start. =3BMy firewall= contactor is not =3Bthe usually starter
contactor with the small wi= ring terminal for the starter. It's a conventional
contactor but rated f= or high current. This may be part of the problem. =3BIf
the starter = checks out then I will use a DC amp meter on the starter lead. I
may als= o add a run-on light to the coil leads.







 =3B







Any
input would be appreciated.







 =3B







Bobby







 =3B











--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue=2C 12 May 20= 09 07:07:22 -0700
From: delta11xd@att.net
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re= : Initial Tuning - Today

Mike=2C

Are you using the right fuel injector for your application?

Such large jumps may be due to improper injector sizing.

The Geo engine is a fuel sipper rather than a gas guzzler so it would = require

an injector that can meter fuel much more precisely.

Just a thought.

Jim

--- On Mon=2C 5/11/09=2C Mike Fontenot &= lt=3Bmikef@apexconsultingservices.com>=3B wrote:

From: Mike Fontenot <=3Bmikef@apexconsultin= gservices.com>=3B
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today
T= o: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <=3Bflyrotary@lancaironline.net>=3B
D= ate: Monday=2C May 11=2C 2009=2C 11:35 PM


Tracy=2C

>=3B>=3BAll good except for = (again) the MAP increasing. =3B =3B My guess is that you Assumed th= at the MAP went up when the RPM went up.  =3B This does not happen unde= r these circumstances without increasing the throttle. =3B See previous= comments on this. =3B Think of the engine as a vacuum pump (it is).&nb= sp=3B If you do something to make the engine (vacuum pump) turn faster WITH= OUT opening the throttle more=2C the MAP is going to go DOWN (more vacuum)= =2C not UP=2C as the engine sucks more air through the same restriction.<= =3B<=3B

Right=2C yes I probably did assume that when the RPM went = up so did the MAP. Good explanation=2C I'll be sure to observe that next en= gine run. Its not Cold Fusion (power de novo).

>=3B>=3BAre you s= aying that the MI jumps around (up and down?) all the time=2C when you move= the mixture control=2C random direction =3B when you move the mix cont= rol=2C or what? =3B =3B Position of O2
sensor (too close to end = of pipe=2C too cold a position=2C etc)=2C exhaust leaks=2C engine miss=2C b= ad connections=2C poor ground=2C and other things can cause bad indications= . <=3B<=3B

When I was in Mode 3=2C and adjusting the mixture kno= b=2C the direction of change of the Mixture Knob and the increase and decre= ase of the Mixture Indicator were in the same direction. It was just that w= hat I thought was a small change on the Knob resulted in a big change on th= e Mixture Indicator. Same when using the Program KNob and Store button. One= push to increase injector flow rate there could make the Mixture Indicator= go from position 3 of 16 to 11 of 16. =3B =3B Movement of the Mixt= ure Indicator always tracked the Mixture Knob or changes via the =3B Pr= ogram Knob=2C but I was expecting smooth increases. And in Mode 3 that gene= rally did not happy=2C they were larger changes. I hate to use this term bu= t 'twitchy'. =3B Again=2C I will run it up again and watch=2C note thes= e
specific things. =3B

I might try checking the wiring and p= utting a ground strap on the O2 sensor as a first attempt.

--
M= ike

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mike Fontenot
Apex Consulting &= =3B Services LLC
Lakewood=2C Colorado
303 / 731-6645
mikef AT apex= consultingservices DOT com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
<= /TD>


--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: = Tue=2C 12 May 2009 09:20:53 -0500
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial T= uning - Today
From: msteitle@gmail.com

Jim=2C

 =3B

I've had good luck finding vacuum leaks using =3BWD-40. =3B Wi= th the engine running=2C spray WD-40 around the intake gasket and other pla= ces you suspect a leak. =3B Since WD-40 is flammable=2C the engine will= change speed if it sucks some liquid into the intake. =3B If the engin= e speed changes=2C you've found your leak. =3B For safety purposes=2C a= nd to keep the WD-40 from spraying you in the face=2C =3Byou may = =3Bwant to remove the prop.


 =3B

Another way to =3Bdiagnose engine problems =3Bis with a vacuum= gauge. =3B See http://autospeed.com/cm= s/title_Using-a-Vacuum-Gauge-for-Engine-Diagnostics/A_2393/article.html=


Mark S.

 =3B

On Tue=2C May 12=2C 2009 at 8:56 AM=2C James Ma= her <=3Bdelta11xd@at= t.net>=3B wrote:






Mike=2C

One way to test for intake manifold leaks is to pinch off hoses one by= one while the engine is running =3Bto see if =3BRPM decreases. You= could also remove the each hose at the manifold an plug the inlet. Also be= sure that the intake manifold gasket and throttle body gasket are sealing = good and that all bolts are tight.


Jim

 =3B



--- On Mon=2C 5/11/09=2C Mike Fontenot <=3Bmikef@apexconsultingservices.com>=3B wrote:

From: Mike Fontenot <=3Bmikef@= apexconsultingservices.com>=3B

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initia= l Tuning - Today
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <=3Bflyrotary@= lancaironline.net>=3B
Date: Monday=2C May 11=2C 2009=2C 3:50 PM


=3D=3D=3D JIM=2C

I will look at what kinds of adjustments I can= make on the Throttle Body. Wow=2C that is low RPM!. I had no idea. Problem= is I don't know what I don't know.


>=3B>=3B>=3B 1. Manifold leak - if this is the case it should be= found and fixed before any tuning is continued. Check all hoses and fittin= gs on the intake manifold and throttle body. Check that the throttle is clo= sing all the way. It may need adjustment. <=3B<=3B<=3B


Wha= t technique do you use for leak detection?


>=3B>=3B>=3B2. Idle setting on throttle body not properly set. I= f the throttle body has a idle speed setting

screw (allows air after the throttle plate) try to turn it to reduce t= he idle.<=3B<=3B<=3B

I will look for that.


Thanks a= gain

--
Mike

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mike Fonten= ot

Apex Consulting &=3B Services LLC
Lakewood=2C Colorado
3= 03 / 731-6645
mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D
<= BR>



--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Subject: Fuel Pressu= re Regulator \ Vacuum Leak
Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009 19:11:19 -0600
Fr= om: bhughes@qnsi.net








I reinstalled my EC2&= nbsp=3B yesterday after a
few changes by Tracy. I immediately discovere= d a new problem. The lowest MAP
address being used was 62 and both prim= ary and secondary injectors fired at all
MP and RPM. With Tracy on the = phone and Dennis H supervising my efforts we found
a small vacuum leak = at the Aeromotive A1000-6 fuel pressure regulator. After
switching the = two MP tubes between A&=3BB controllers the A controller starter
wor= king as expected. The EC2 staged properly =3Bwith lower MAP addresses b= eing
accessed. When reinstalling the EC2 I had switch the MP tubes from= my usual
configuration. A couple of weeks ago I had noticed my B contr= oller was not
working as expected. I had to continually adjust the mixt= ure to keep the engine
running. =3BNow I know why. What was unexpec= ted is one MP tube is used for the
fuel pressure regulator=2C B Control= ler and my Advanced EFIS engine monitor. The
Advanced engine monitor wa= s not affected by the slight leak. On the other hand
the EM3 did see th= e =3Bleak and was =3Bshowing static pressure regardless of
MP. = Here is a note from the Aeromotive web site.

=  =3B

=  =3B

=  =3B

=  =3B

NOTE: = Testing
the enclosed regulator by applying air pressure or vacuum to th= e vacuum port
with a


hand-held pump will yield poor = results=2C
due to the slight air leakage through the adjustment screw


threads. This minute leakage=2C= which is
typical of all adjustable fuel pressure regulators=2C does no= t=2C in any


way=2C affect the performance o= f the
regulator.


 =3B


Bobby
Hughes =3B



--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: downing.j@sbcglobal.net
S= ubject: UMA Tach
Date: Tue=2C 12 May 2009 21:35:39 -0400



=






A great big thanks goes out to Bob=2C Ed a= nd Jeff for
the effort these gentlemen put in on a solution to my tach = condition. =3B I
ordered the tach from UMA today=2C which is part n= umber 19-51A-201=2C which is a
7=2C000 rpm tach=2C 2 1/4" dia.=2C which= will operate on the 5v signal to one LS-1
coil. =3B Price is $141.= 00. =3B Phone number for UMA is 1-800/842-5578=2C in
case anyone is= looking for an analog tach in 2 1/4 or 3 1/8th" size. =3B
Another = plus for UMA=2C it is made in Virginia=2C Good Ole USA. =3B
JohnD



--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: eanderson@= carolina.rr.com
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] UMA Tach
Date: Tue=2C 12 May= 2009 22:11:28 -0400


























You=92re Welcome= =2C John



 =3B<= /FONT>



That=92s what th= is list is all about =96
helping each to get those rotaries airborne.



 =3B<= /FONT>



Ed=



 =3B<= /FONT>













From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t]
On Behalf Of John
=
Sent: Tuesday=2C May 12= =2C 2009 9:36
PM

To:<= /B> Rotary
motors in aircraft

 =3B





A great big thanks goes out to Bob=2C Ed and= Jeff for the
effort these gentlemen put in on a solution to my tach con= dition. =3B I
ordered the tach from UMA today=2C which is part numbe= r 19-51A-201=2C which is a
7=2C000 rpm tach=2C 2 1/4" dia.=2C which will= operate on the 5v signal to one
LS-1 coil. =3B Price is $141.00.&nb= sp=3B Phone number for UMA is
1-800/842-5578=2C in case anyone is lookin= g for an analog tach in 2 1/4 or 3
1/8th" size. =3B Another plus for= UMA=2C it is made in Virginia=2C Good Ole USA. =3B
JohnD









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database 3267 (20080714) ______= ____



The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.


http://www.eset.com







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--= Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: ALVentures@cox.net
Subject: RE: = [FlyRotary] Fuel Pressure Regulator \ Vacuum Leak
Date: Tue=2C 12 May 20= 09 22:21:21 -0800






















Here is a n= ote from the Aeromotive
web site.






 =3B =3B





. . . .<= /SPAN>This minute
leakage=2C which is typical of all adjus= table fuel pressure regulators=2C does not=2C
in any


way=2C affect the performance of the= regulator.



Maybe it is typical of all Aeromotive pressure regulators=3B= but my TWM adjustable
regulator is T=92d off the line to controller B= =2C and has worked fine for
four years with no leakage.

Al G








Hotmail=AE has a new way to see what's up= with your friends. Chec= k it out. = --_2d7ab6ea-e40b-4ec9-bcda-4f967f302c97_--