X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp118.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com ([66.196.96.91] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with SMTP id 3643642 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 15 May 2009 19:07:59 -0400 Received-SPF: neutral receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.196.96.91; envelope-from=bryanwinberry@bellsouth.net Received: (qmail 48639 invoked from network); 15 May 2009 23:07:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO acer7fbfa7e2f7) (bryanwinberry@98.88.51.161 with login) by smtp118.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2009 23:07:24 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Szkv52UVM1lfCycnmvgImQWUGALbsELn3FYV.Rl.b4LjCafa0bbmpDsaEJXakwzCfpRLnL.MEkwsWczw5woTOR9Qr6lYsLSM7Iuufx3NgqUrlnkyrRVI425PpAf6jTfNFys3YixPHrQ.gtbnL3BF5OdF50qeltWwd7de1JW3pWWG_vxwUcYtKLtBzvWeUSNUvDgydxAH4eeGlykXfhQmfhWopdxnJIlH5fyimRReiJK_.S9fiNSB1SAAmKVa7BOzfwgzrLGt8lGYTvAeOPRWGAY2sQQi76iHoQIhBYQgSiunHBjr.SLO9NU- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Bryan Winberry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 19:07:22 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_009F_01C9D590.612C2620" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcnVsO6NbBXtphvET++kOzFbTJndTwAAOn7w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01C9D590.612C2620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good points Bobby. Thanks BW _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 7:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus Bryan, I have one and ending up just using it for avionics and lights. I disabled the master relay with the factory jumper and remote mounted the switches. I was uncomfortable with the alternator connection directly to the circuit board. My battery's are on the firewall so I could not see using the charging circuit as designed. The BBAT circuit is useless if you can't power flight critical items from the circuit board. Coil, fuel inj, EC2 and one fuel pump are on separate breakers. I have 3 automotive fuse blocks I am using for other items. I would not power anything flight critical from the EXP. The current rating for the polyfuses just does match our requirements for critical items. Also could not live with everything in one box. If it was a Lyc it might be different. Bobby Hughes _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:13 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus I guess my main concern is if there is anything about the EXP Bus that might make the EM/EC3 not function as advertised. We've all seen the posts lately regarding gremlins creating funky behavior in these critical components. So, while there seems to be simplicity in the installation of the bus, there are internal components that add complexity and more potential sources of problems. BW _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:33 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus Welcome, Bryan As I indicated the EXP2 may not be a bad choice, the only downside I could see is making later additions. Let me forewarn you - as an alternative engine experimenter, there is a strong likelihood that you will make changes {:>) Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:20 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus Thanks Ed, I actually stumbled on your account on the aeroelectric website. _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:31 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus Hi Bryan, While I do not fly with the EXP2V bus, I do have some knowledge of it as I helped an RV-6A owner with an electrical problem who had one. It turns out the EXP2V electrical problem was not due to the EXP2V solely - it had considerable help from someone who had screwed up and fried the on-board relay and then attempted to Jump the relay position rather than replacing the on-board relay. The results were that without the relay and with the non-factory jumper (there is a factory jumper apparently with a diode embedded in it which can be used to replace the relay - but a piece of wire won't work) - the battery stayed connected to the board load and more importantly to the alternator continuously. That was fine in that it kept the battery connected and charged while the engine was running, however, upon engine shut down, This connection would drain the battery overnight and next day - no power to start the aircraft. With the relay in place when the master switch is turned off the relay opens removing the battery from the alternator circuit, but that could not happen with this self made jumper in place. Upon examination it was apparent that very high currents had been applied to some of the traces on the board, the copper traces had gotten hot enough to cause the solder coating to flow - undoubtedly this current also was responsible for frying the relay. Initially, I was not highly impressed with the EXP2V but the more I examined the circuit the more I became convinced that particularly for those "electrically challenged" this might not be a bad way to go. The only downside I have heard is that trying to wire in later electrical additions to the board can be frustrating as you only have so many switches and circuits on the board. The polyfuses (automatically reset) have gotten a lot of attention (not all favorable) but I do not personally know of anyone who has had any bad experiences with them. I wired my own panel and therefore know it intimately, so changes are no problem. However, as I indicated, this might be a better choice than trying to wire your own if you do not feel knowledgeable or comfortable about doing so. I did come to one conclusion about the high current flow. In looking at the circuit diagram, it became clear that if someone had been messing with the alternator AND had left the EXP2V master switch ON and then permitted the "B" lead of the alternator to become grounded - even temporarily - that would ground the battery through the board and the on-board relay. I strongly suspect that this is what happened and with the resulting high current flow which fried the relay and melted the solder - so one could surmise that the board withstood the abuse about as well as any circuit could have. I have no vested interest one way or the other, just passing on my observations and opinion. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 1:27 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] EXP 2V Bus Anyone out there using this bus? Would welcome pros and cons with regard to the Renesis going into a RV-7. Bryan Just starting to think about electrical __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_009F_01C9D590.612C2620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good points Bobby. = Thanks

BW

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 7:44 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = EXP 2V Bus

 

Bryan,

 

I have one and ending up just using = it for avionics and lights. I disabled the master relay with the factory jumper = and remote mounted the switches. I was uncomfortable with the = alternator connection directly to the circuit board. My battery's are on the = firewall so I could not see using the charging circuit as designed. The BBAT circuit = is useless if you can't power flight critical items from the circuit board. Coil, fuel inj, EC2 and one fuel pump are on separate = breakers. I have 3 automotive fuse blocks I am using for other items. I would not = power anything flight critical from the EXP. The current rating for the = polyfuses just does match our requirements for critical items. Also could not = live with everything in one box. If it was a Lyc it might be = different.

 

Bobby = Hughes

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 3:13 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = EXP 2V Bus

I guess my main concern is if there = is anything about the EXP Bus that might make the EM/EC3 not function as advertised.  We’ve all seen the posts lately regarding = gremlins creating funky behavior in these critical components.  So, while = there seems to be simplicity in the installation of the bus, there are = internal components that add complexity and more potential sources of = problems.

BW

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 4:33 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = EXP 2V Bus

 

Welcome, Bryan

 

As I indicated the EXP2 may not be = a bad choice, the only downside I could see is making later additions.  = Let me forewarn you -  as an alternative engine experimenter, there is a = strong likelihood  that you will make changes = {:>)

 

Ed

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan = Winberry
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 4:20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = EXP 2V Bus

 

Thanks = Ed,

I actually stumbled on your account = on the aeroelectric website.

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 3:31 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = EXP 2V Bus

 

Hi = Bryan,

 

While I do not fly with the EXP2V = bus, I do have some knowledge of it as I helped an RV-6A owner with an = electrical problem who had one.

 

   It turns out the EXP2V  electrical problem was not due to the EXP2V solely – it had considerable help from  someone who had screwed up and fried the = on-board relay and then attempted to Jump the relay position rather than = replacing the on-board relay.  The results were that without the relay and with = the non-factory jumper (there is a factory jumper apparently with a diode = embedded in it which can be used to replace the relay – but a piece of wire won’t work) – the battery stayed connected to the board load = and more importantly to the alternator continuously.  That was fine in = that it kept the battery connected and charged while the engine was running, = however, upon engine shut down, This connection would drain the battery overnight = and next day - no power to start the aircraft.  With the relay in place = when the master switch is turned off the relay opens removing the battery = from the alternator circuit, but that could not happen with this self made jumper = in place.

 

Upon examination it was apparent = that very high currents had been applied to some of the traces on the board, the = copper traces had gotten hot enough to cause the solder coating to flow – undoubtedly this current also was responsible for frying the = relay.

 

Initially, I was not highly = impressed with the EXP2V but the more I examined the circuit  the more I became = convinced that particularly for those “electrically challenged” this = might not be a bad way to go.  The only downside I have heard is that = trying to wire in later electrical additions to the board can be frustrating as = you only have so many switches and circuits on the board.  The polyfuses = (automatically reset) have gotten a lot of attention (not all favorable) but I do not personally know of anyone who has had any bad experiences with = them.  I wired my own panel and therefore know it intimately, so changes are no = problem.  However, as I indicated, this might be a better choice than trying = to wire your own if you do not feel knowledgeable or comfortable about = doing so.

 

I did come to one conclusion about = the high current flow.  In looking at the circuit diagram, it became = clear that if someone had been messing with the alternator AND had left the = EXP2V master switch ON and then permitted the “B” lead of the = alternator to become grounded – even temporarily – that would ground = the battery through the board and the on-board relay.  I strongly = suspect that this is what happened and with the resulting high current flow which = fried the relay and melted the solder – so one could surmise that the board withstood the abuse about as well as any circuit could = have.

 

I have no vested interest one way = or the other, just passing on my observations and = opinion.

 

Ed

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 1:27 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] EXP = 2V Bus

 

Anyone out there using this bus?  Would welcome = pros and cons with regard to the Renesis going into a = RV-7.

Bryan

Just starting to think about = electrical



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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