X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp119.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com ([66.196.96.92] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with SMTP id 3643627 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 15 May 2009 18:49:58 -0400 Received-SPF: neutral receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.196.96.92; envelope-from=bryanwinberry@bellsouth.net Received: (qmail 28638 invoked from network); 15 May 2009 22:49:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO acer7fbfa7e2f7) (bryanwinberry@98.88.51.161 with login) by smtp119.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 15 May 2009 22:49:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: IHQmQdoVM1k70yzGBegkZ6KfJiMkp9jSlBySCyga2R0QDYh3nNxq.ERe9DTcbCqZ7_BHyDNOSOt7kIkKdvzwQYL6aLdd8csg6q__BAmXb11NRzi5m22BNYJFZlcthqKVmZCK6Sf9n9xXD9t3hbQ69n4ZMhrG9kV6W0mzp7JT7ZfNMqyEXPj6CJ7Nc_Ix_opMQFTPYIzb.zEorSsjK1D90H7VGtbsKH4nXdhGKbWDPlZUK2fol5OYW93oCWa9eyGZkCPP3dudp8mLyha0etDkYHiptTo5kpl79i15XUiAOiXG555FLm.cBiY- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Bryan Winberry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] To do or not to do? [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 18:49:20 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0091_01C9D58D.DBBCD360" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcnVrg5v8baZZnOlSFaFJbd/xiCGCAAAIamQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01C9D58D.DBBCD360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I don't have my EC3 yet, so I guess I don't have a good feel for what circuits I need. I have a chance to get a good deal on a unit never used from an abandoned project. I think I can easily get my money back plus some if it is unsuitable. The seller did say that they(control vision) don't recommend wiring fuel pumps through the unit. I can't find that verbiage on their website though. This unit has the battery back up option which seems attractive, but I'm so uninitiated. BW _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 6:39 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] To do or not to do? [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus Well, Bryan, that's a question that can probably only be completely answered by someone taking that step. It appeared to me that while the EXP2 bus could handle the basic job of providing power distribution to the EC2/3, there are other electrical aspects such as your injector power switches, the ignition check switch not to mention the switches associate with the Program Controller. Naturally, any "special" switches would have to be provided whether using the EXP2 or not. IF I were to consider using the EXP2, I would go to their web site and get the schematic of the unit. Study that to see what it would accommodate as for as meeting your needs, then look at what special needs you might have to address and see what portion of those the EXP2 might be adapted to meeting - and then there are perhaps a few things that the EXP2 simply can not handle and you would have to provide the means. If its use reduces your workload a worthwhile amount on the basic power buss then you have more time to work on the "special' needs of your system. But, as best I recall the unit cost around $300 and had (as best I recall) around 10-12 switches and circuits. It also had a configuration whereby you could use external Contactors or relays instead of the on-board relay. So that might not be a bad starting point. But, as I said check out the schematic first. I have never found the EC2 to be the least bit cranky about its hook up. However, have not had an EM2/3 so can't address how "finicky" they might be. However, I think good electrical design and wiring practices can do much to ensuring these are kept to a minimum. Anytime you try a different approach, you are the pioneer - you know that guy with all the arrows in his butt - so just try to assess what its going to take and see if that is where you are willing and capable of going. Good luck in your decision. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 5:13 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus I guess my main concern is if there is anything about the EXP Bus that might make the EM/EC3 not function as advertised. We've all seen the posts lately regarding gremlins creating funky behavior in these critical components. So, while there seems to be simplicity in the installation of the bus, there are internal components that add complexity and more potential sources of problems. BW _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:33 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus Welcome, Bryan As I indicated the EXP2 may not be a bad choice, the only downside I could see is making later additions. Let me forewarn you - as an alternative engine experimenter, there is a strong likelihood that you will make changes {:>) Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:20 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus Thanks Ed, I actually stumbled on your account on the aeroelectric website. _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 3:31 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus Hi Bryan, While I do not fly with the EXP2V bus, I do have some knowledge of it as I helped an RV-6A owner with an electrical problem who had one. It turns out the EXP2V electrical problem was not due to the EXP2V solely - it had considerable help from someone who had screwed up and fried the on-board relay and then attempted to Jump the relay position rather than replacing the on-board relay. The results were that without the relay and with the non-factory jumper (there is a factory jumper apparently with a diode embedded in it which can be used to replace the relay - but a piece of wire won't work) - the battery stayed connected to the board load and more importantly to the alternator continuously. That was fine in that it kept the battery connected and charged while the engine was running, however, upon engine shut down, This connection would drain the battery overnight and next day - no power to start the aircraft. With the relay in place when the master switch is turned off the relay opens removing the battery from the alternator circuit, but that could not happen with this self made jumper in place. Upon examination it was apparent that very high currents had been applied to some of the traces on the board, the copper traces had gotten hot enough to cause the solder coating to flow - undoubtedly this current also was responsible for frying the relay. Initially, I was not highly impressed with the EXP2V but the more I examined the circuit the more I became convinced that particularly for those "electrically challenged" this might not be a bad way to go. The only downside I have heard is that trying to wire in later electrical additions to the board can be frustrating as you only have so many switches and circuits on the board. The polyfuses (automatically reset) have gotten a lot of attention (not all favorable) but I do not personally know of anyone who has had any bad experiences with them. I wired my own panel and therefore know it intimately, so changes are no problem. However, as I indicated, this might be a better choice than trying to wire your own if you do not feel knowledgeable or comfortable about doing so. I did come to one conclusion about the high current flow. In looking at the circuit diagram, it became clear that if someone had been messing with the alternator AND had left the EXP2V master switch ON and then permitted the "B" lead of the alternator to become grounded - even temporarily - that would ground the battery through the board and the on-board relay. I strongly suspect that this is what happened and with the resulting high current flow which fried the relay and melted the solder - so one could surmise that the board withstood the abuse about as well as any circuit could have. I have no vested interest one way or the other, just passing on my observations and opinion. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 1:27 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] EXP 2V Bus Anyone out there using this bus? Would welcome pros and cons with regard to the Renesis going into a RV-7. Bryan Just starting to think about electrical __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0091_01C9D58D.DBBCD360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don’t have my EC3 yet, so I = guess I don’t have a good feel for what circuits I need.  I have a = chance to get a good deal on a unit never used from an abandoned project. =  I think I can easily get my money back plus some if it is = unsuitable.  The seller did say that they(control vision) don’t recommend wiring = fuel pumps through the unit.  I can’t find that verbiage on their = website though.

This unit has the battery back up = option which seems attractive, but I’m so = uninitiated.

BW

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 6:39 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] To = do or not to do? [FlyRotary] Re: EXP 2V Bus

 

Well, Bryan, that’s a question that = can probably only be completely answered by someone taking that = step.

 

 

It appeared to me that while the = EXP2 bus could handle the basic job of providing power distribution to the EC2/3, = there are other electrical aspects such as your injector power switches, the = ignition check switch not to mention the switches associate with the Program Controller.  Naturally, any “special” switches would = have to be provided whether using the EXP2 or not.

 

IF I were to consider using the = EXP2, I would go to their web site and get the schematic of the unit.  = Study that to see what it would accommodate as for as meeting your needs, then look = at what special needs you might have to address and see what portion of = those the EXP2 might be adapted to meeting – and then there are perhaps a = few things that the EXP2 simply can not handle and you would have to provide = the means.  If its use reduces your workload a worthwhile amount on the = basic power buss then you have more time to work on the “special’ = needs of your system. 

 

But, as best I recall the unit cost = around $300 and had (as best I recall) around 10-12 switches and = circuits.  It also had a configuration whereby you could use external Contactors or = relays instead of the on-board relay.  So that might not be a bad starting point.  But, as I said check out the schematic = first.

 

I have never found the EC2 to be = the least bit cranky about its hook up.  However, have not had an EM2/3 so can’t address how “finicky” they might be.  = However, I think good electrical design and wiring practices can do much to = ensuring these are kept to a minimum.  Anytime you try a different approach, you = are the pioneer – you know that guy with all the arrows in his butt = – so just try to assess what its going to take and see if that is where you = are willing and capable of going.

 

Good luck in your = decision.

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 5:13 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = EXP 2V Bus

 

I guess my main concern is if there = is anything about the EXP Bus that might make the EM/EC3 not function as advertised.  We’ve all seen the posts lately regarding gremlins creating = funky behavior in these critical components.  So, while there seems to be simplicity in the installation of the bus, there are internal components = that add complexity and more potential sources of = problems.

BW

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 4:33 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = EXP 2V Bus

 

Welcome, Bryan

 

As I indicated the EXP2 may not be = a bad choice, the only downside I could see is making later additions.  = Let me forewarn you -  as an alternative engine experimenter, there is a = strong likelihood  that you will make changes = {:>)

 

Ed

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 4:20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = EXP 2V Bus

 

Thanks = Ed,

I actually stumbled on your account = on the aeroelectric website.

 

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 3:31 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = EXP 2V Bus

 

Hi = Bryan,

 

While I do not fly with the EXP2V = bus, I do have some knowledge of it as I helped an RV-6A owner with an = electrical problem who had one.

 

   It turns out the EXP2V  electrical problem was not due to the EXP2V solely – it had considerable help from  someone who had screwed up and fried the = on-board relay and then attempted to Jump the relay position rather than = replacing the on-board relay.  The results were that without the relay and with = the non-factory jumper (there is a factory jumper apparently with a diode = embedded in it which can be used to replace the relay – but a piece of wire won’t work) – the battery stayed connected to the board load = and more importantly to the alternator continuously.  That was fine in = that it kept the battery connected and charged while the engine was running, = however, upon engine shut down, This connection would drain the battery overnight = and next day - no power to start the aircraft.  With the relay in place = when the master switch is turned off the relay opens removing the battery = from the alternator circuit, but that could not happen with this self made jumper = in place.

 

Upon examination it was apparent = that very high currents had been applied to some of the traces on the board, the = copper traces had gotten hot enough to cause the solder coating to flow – undoubtedly this current also was responsible for frying the = relay.

 

Initially, I was not highly = impressed with the EXP2V but the more I examined the circuit  the more I became = convinced that particularly for those “electrically challenged” this = might not be a bad way to go.  The only downside I have heard is that = trying to wire in later electrical additions to the board can be frustrating as = you only have so many switches and circuits on the board.  The polyfuses (automatically reset) have gotten a lot of attention (not all favorable) = but I do not personally know of anyone who has had any bad experiences with them.  I wired my own panel and therefore know it intimately, so = changes are no problem.  However, as I indicated, this might be a better = choice than trying to wire your own if you do not feel knowledgeable or = comfortable about doing so.

 

I did come to one conclusion about = the high current flow.  In looking at the circuit diagram, it became = clear that if someone had been messing with the alternator AND had left the = EXP2V master switch ON and then permitted the “B” lead of the = alternator to become grounded – even temporarily – that would ground = the battery through the board and the on-board relay.  I strongly = suspect that this is what happened and with the resulting high current flow which = fried the relay and melted the solder – so one could surmise that the board withstood the abuse about as well as any circuit could = have.

 

I have no vested interest one way = or the other, just passing on my observations and = opinion.

 

Ed

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bryan Winberry
Sent: Friday, May 15, = 2009 1:27 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] EXP = 2V Bus

 

Anyone out there using this bus?  Would welcome = pros and cons with regard to the Renesis going into a = RV-7.

Bryan

Just starting to think about = electrical



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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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