X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail06.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.187] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with ESMTPS id 3546811 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:34:31 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.187; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (d220-236-255-172.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.236.255.172]) by mail06.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id n2DLXkww021053 for ; Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:33:47 +1100 Message-ID: From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: IVO Prop Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:19:15 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004F_01C9A475.2E9E6070" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0617-3, 04/28/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C9A475.2E9E6070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike,=20 You are correct, that was developed by Butch and offered it for trial to = someone ( I can't remember his name) for testing - they haven't gotten = around to testing it yet and this is the second person who has accepted = it for testing. It is an electric adjustable prop, the electric motor resides in the = spinner and is a beautifully engineered piece of work. Butch is an = Aeronautical Engineer and takes a lot of pride in what he designs, but = he works for the government and is constantly busy involved in major = works. George ( down under) Kelly, No I didnt recall you had an IVO, but did know you had the Mustang = spinner (thanks for the idea). I know at one point there was some talk = of modifying the root section of the IVO by adding cuffs of some sort. = Not a solution for me - that exceeds my comfort level. There was a group working on a variable pitch prop over on Paul's = list 5 years ago as an alternative to the IVO. I assume nothing ever = came of that? It's been that long since I subscribed to that list. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kelly Troyer=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop Mike, Have been following this with much interest...........If you may = recall I also have the "IVO" for my "DELTA" and from previous posts (Some Time Ago) we discussed = how to reduce=20 or eliminate the drag penalty of the flat virtually pitchless root = section of the blades........I had already decided to eliminate this drag by using the large 16 = inch diameter "Mustang II" spinner which I believe you have incorporated on your = "RV4"...........I have spent the last 2.5 years watching after aging parents so am far behind with my = "DELTA" and have not been able to test my drag reduction theory for the "IVO"..........I = would be very interested to hear from anyone of the group with a tractor /IVO installation = that may have used a large diameter spinner to reduce and/or eliminate the drag from the root = section of the blades..... The 16 inch spinner will cover most but not all of this virtually = flat root section........ If the airframe/cowl will handle an 18 inch spinner then all of this root = section will be covered if I recall correctly (I am not at the hangar).........FWIW =20 =20 -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from "Mike Wills" = : --------------=20 > John,=20 >=20 > I looked pretty seriously at the IVO a number of years ago. But = was scared=20 > off by a number of things:=20 >=20 > 1) Watched Dave Atkins repairing a delaminated trailing edge on = the flight=20 > line at Copperstate fly-in.=20 > 2) A friend with a Kolb Firestar/Rotax 503/ground adjustable IVO = had the=20 > prop come apart in flight resulting in a forced landing that = totaled the=20 > plane.=20 > 3) Tracy's experience re reduced performance at speed.=20 > 4) The issues experienced by Lyc powered users.=20 >=20 > Numbers 1 & 2 were possibly due to something going through the = prop with the=20 > engine running. Issue 4 seems to be not relevant. This leaves = Tracy's=20 > experience with the IVO. I wasnt thinking about the fact that = you fly a=20 > pusher when I asked, but presumably a pusher would not have the = prop root=20 > issue that Tracy reported. On my RV-4 I use a much larger than = stock spinner=20 > and this issue may not be as significant as it was for Tracy. = But I'm not=20 > sure I want to buy one to find out. My current prop seems to be = pretty close=20 > though I havent flown it enough to really make a judgement.=20 >=20 > Thanks for the feedback.=20 >=20 > Mike Wills=20 > RV-4 N144MW=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "John Slade"=20 > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:41 PM=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop=20 >=20 >=20 > > >I didn't know anyone had ever had any success with an IVO. = Tell me more.=20 > > What do you want to know? Its a very well engineered piece of = equipment.=20 > > The CF blades are hollow and have a steel rod running to the = hub.=20 > > Activating the motor via brushes twists the steel and thus = twists the=20 > > blades equally. The twist change is quite visible. There were = problems=20 > > with the individual blades slipping on the hub. This has been = solved by=20 > > providing a knurled hub, and not selling to guys with = Lycomings. The IVO=20 > > is available for rotary, subaru, Franklin 6 and other less = "pulsy"=20 > > engines. After the first 15 hours or so my blades have hardly = taken any=20 > > extra torque.=20 > >=20 > > My performance is greatly enhanced compared to the fixed pitch = Performance=20 > > prop. Static with the wood prop was around 4500. With the IVO = on full fine=20 > > I get closer to 5400 which gives me access to a lot more power = on take=20 > > off. I've never done a "high speed" run with the IVO, but I've = had 180 kts=20 > > indicated at 2000' a few times without much effort, and = without ever going=20 > > to the full course setting. Another nice bonus is that = throttled back on=20 > > full fine for landing, the prop acts like a brake. Its much = easier to land=20 > > and stop than the fixed pitch that's pushing you along fairly = well, even=20 > > at idle.=20 > >=20 > > I know a Velocity driver (Mike Watson) who also uses an IVO = (Franklin 6)=20 > > and is very happy with it after around 5 years of use.=20 > >=20 > > The factory people are very easy to deal with and very = helpful.=20 > >=20 > > The Cozy Girrrls are installing an IVO. What better = recommendation could=20 > > you want? :)=20 > >=20 > > Regards,=20 > > John Slade=20 > > Turbo Rotary Cozy IV, N96PM=20 > > 98.1 Hrs.=20 > >=20 > > Mike Wills wrote:=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> Mike Wills=20 > >> RV-4 N144MW=20 > >>=20 > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Slade"=20 > >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:30 AM=20 > >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ground Testing=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>> The IVO electric in-flight adjustable costs around $2350. = I'm very=20 > >>> pleased with mine. My "spare" is a $2700 fixed pitch wood = prop thats a=20 > >>> piece of art, but doesn't work anywhere near as well.=20 > >>> John=20 > >>>=20 > >>> Tracy Crook wrote:=20 > >>> A variable pitch prop would be nice to get the best of both = worlds but=20 > >>> it's an expensive option and $10,000 buys a lot of gas.=20 > >>>=20 > >>>=20 > >>>=20 > >>> --=20 > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > >>> Archive and UnSub:=20 > >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 > >>>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> --=20 > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > >> Archive and UnSub:=20 > >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 > >>=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --=20 > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > > Archive and UnSub:=20 > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C9A475.2E9E6070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Mike,
You are correct, that was developed by = Butch and=20 offered it for trial to someone ( I can't remember his name) for = testing -=20 they haven't gotten around to testing it yet and this is the second = person=20 who has accepted it for testing.
It is an electric adjustable prop, the = electric=20 motor resides in the spinner and is a beautifully engineered piece of = work.=20 Butch is an Aeronautical Engineer and takes a lot of pride in what he = designs,=20 but he works for the government and is constantly busy involved in = major=20 works.
George ( down under)
Kelly,
 
 No I didnt recall you had an = IVO, but did=20 know you had the Mustang spinner (thanks for the idea). I know at one = point=20 there was some talk of modifying the root section of the IVO by = adding=20 cuffs of some sort. Not a solution for me - that exceeds my comfort=20 level.
 
 There was a group working on a = variable=20 pitch prop over on Paul's list 5 years ago as an alternative to the = IVO. I=20 assume nothing ever came of that? It's been that long since I = subscribed to=20 that list.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kelly = Troyer
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Thursday, March 12, = 2009 10:09=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO = Prop

Mike,
  Have been following this with much interest...........If = you may=20 recall I also have the "IVO"
for my "DELTA" and from previous posts (Some Time Ago) we = discussed how=20 to reduce
or eliminate the drag penalty of the flat virtually pitchless = root=20 section of the blades........I
had already decided to eliminate this drag by using the large = 16 inch=20 diameter "Mustang II"
spinner which I believe you have incorporated on your = "RV4"...........I=20 have spent the last
2.5 years watching after aging parents so am far behind with my = "DELTA"=20 and have not
been able to test my drag reduction theory for the = "IVO"..........I=20 would be very interested
to hear from anyone of the group with a tractor /IVO = installation that=20 may have used a large
diameter spinner to reduce and/or eliminate the drag from the = root=20 section of the blades.....
 
 The 16 inch spinner will cover most but not all of = this=20 virtually flat root section........ If  the
airframe/cowl will handle an 18 inch spinner then all of = this root=20 section will be covered if
I recall correctly (I am not at the=20 hangar).........FWIW  
 
   
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke = Delta"_13B=20 ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold=20



 
--------------=20 Original message from "Mike Wills" <rv-4mike@cox.net>:=20 --------------


> John,
>
> I looked = pretty=20 seriously at the IVO a number of years ago. But was scared =
> off by=20 a number of things:
>
> 1) Watched Dave Atkins = repairing a=20 delaminated trailing edge on the flight
> line at = Copperstate=20 fly-in.
> 2) A friend with a Kolb Firestar/Rotax 503/ground = adjustable IVO had the
> prop come apart in flight = resulting in a=20 forced landing that totaled the
> plane.
> 3) = Tracy's=20 experience re reduced performance at speed.
> 4) The issues = experienced by Lyc powered users.
>
> Numbers 1 = & 2 were=20 possibly due to something going through the prop with the
> = engine=20 running. Issue 4 seems to be not relevant. This leaves Tracy's =
>=20 experience with the IVO. I wasnt thinking about the fact that you = fly a=20
> pusher when I asked, but presumably a pusher would not = have the=20 prop root
> issue that Tracy reported. On my RV-4 I use a = much=20 larger than stock spinner
> and this issue may not be as=20 significant as it was for Tracy. But I'm not
> sure I want = to buy=20 one to find out. My current prop seems to be pretty close
> = though=20 I havent flown it enough to really make a judgement.
> =
>=20 Thanks for the feedback.
>
> Mike Wills
> = RV-4 N144MW=20
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- =
>=20 From: "John Slade"
> To: "Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft"
> Sent: Tuesday, = March 10,=20 2009 9:41 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop
> =
>=20
> > >I didn't know anyone had ever had any success = with an=20 IVO. Tell me more.
> > What do you want to know? Its a = very well=20 engineered piece of equipment.
> > The CF blades are = hollow and=20 have a steel rod running to the hub.
> > Activating the = motor=20 via brushes twists the steel and thus twists the
> > = blades=20 equally. The twist change is quite visible. There were problems =
>=20 > with the individual blades slipping on the hub. This has been = solved=20 by
> > providing a knurled hub, and not selling to guys = with=20 Lycomings. The IVO
> > is available for rotary, subaru, = Franklin=20 6 and other less "pulsy"
> > engines. After the first 15 = hours=20 or so my blades have hardly taken any
> > extra torque. =
>=20 >
> > My performance is greatly enhanced compared to = the=20 fixed pitch Performance
> > prop. Static with the wood = prop was=20 around 4500. With the IVO on full fine
> > I get closer = to 5400=20 which gives me access to a lot more power on take
> > = off. I've=20 never done a "high speed" run with the IVO, but I've had 180 kts =
>=20 > indicated at 2000' a few times without much effort, and = without ever=20 going
> > to the full course setting. Another nice bonus = is that=20 throttled back on
> > full fine for landing, the prop = acts like=20 a brake. Its much easier to land
> > and stop than the = fixed=20 pitch that's pushing you along fairly well, even
> > at = idle.=20
> >
> > I know a Velocity driver (Mike Watson) = who=20 also uses an IVO (Franklin 6)
> > and is very happy with = it=20 after around 5 years of use.
> >
> > The = factory=20 people are very easy to deal with and very helpful.
> > =
>=20 > The Cozy Girrrls are installing an IVO. What better = recommendation=20 could
> > you want? :)
> >
> > = Regards,=20
> > John Slade
> > Turbo Rotary Cozy IV, N96PM =
> > 98.1 Hrs.
> >
> > Mike Wills = wrote:=20
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Wills =
>=20 >> RV-4 N144MW
> >>
> >> ----- = Original=20 Message ----- From: "John Slade"
> = >>=20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =
>=20 >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:30 AM
> >> = Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Ground Testing
> >>
> >> =
> >>> The IVO electric in-flight adjustable costs = around=20 $2350. I'm very
> >>> pleased with mine. My = "spare" is a=20 $2700 fixed pitch wood prop thats a
> >>> piece of = art,=20 but doesn't work anywhere near as well.
> >>> John =
> >>>
> >>> Tracy Crook wrote: =
>=20 >>> A variable pitch prop would be nice to get the best = of both=20 worlds but
> >>> it's an expensive option and = $10,000 buys=20 a lot of gas.
> >>>
> >>>
> = >>>
> >>> --
> >>> = Homepage:=20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >>> Archive and UnSub: =
> >>>=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =
>=20 >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> =
> >> --
> >> Homepage: = http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
> >> Archive and UnSub:
> >>=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =
>=20 >>
> >
> >
> > --
> = >=20 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and = UnSub:=20
> > = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
> >
>
>
>
> --
> = Homepage:=20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C9A475.2E9E6070--