X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao107.cox.net ([68.230.241.39] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with ESMTP id 3546602 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:04:47 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.39; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090313190411.HCDK10385.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:04:11 -0400 Received: from wills ([68.105.85.56]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id Sj481b00Q1CvZmk03j4AQC; Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:04:10 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=cs81AD8ZoERTwHLAeHQA:9 a=JquL12gVxhDmguSToMEA:7 a=lK5gfID0PDH6IGejNW66OB4F49EA:4 a=ZKlmZI38X7UA:10 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=MSx7zKen41gRjboq:21 a=4YY7P4Bv9fQBOHAF:21 a=HZJGGiqLAAAA:8 a=pcLIrrrKAAAA:8 a=BLH4n7tLArN_YL1aEkAA:9 a=r7cSW5G83ItpWcZdhSQA:7 a=gBxxNNExj8w6iYMvTEHmjoBcf2YA:4 a=ct1jHBItfXcA:10 a=HeoGohOdMD0A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=ftFGBYpk1mUA:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <003101c9a40e$7c8e2e80$38556944@wills> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:04:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01C9A3D3.CFE0C150" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C9A3D3.CFE0C150 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly, No I didnt recall you had an IVO, but did know you had the Mustang = spinner (thanks for the idea). I know at one point there was some talk = of modifying the root section of the IVO by adding cuffs of some sort. = Not a solution for me - that exceeds my comfort level. There was a group working on a variable pitch prop over on Paul's list = 5 years ago as an alternative to the IVO. I assume nothing ever came of = that? It's been that long since I subscribed to that list. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kelly Troyer=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop Mike, Have been following this with much interest...........If you may = recall I also have the "IVO" for my "DELTA" and from previous posts (Some Time Ago) we discussed = how to reduce=20 or eliminate the drag penalty of the flat virtually pitchless root = section of the blades........I had already decided to eliminate this drag by using the large 16 inch = diameter "Mustang II" spinner which I believe you have incorporated on your = "RV4"...........I have spent the last 2.5 years watching after aging parents so am far behind with my = "DELTA" and have not been able to test my drag reduction theory for the "IVO"..........I = would be very interested to hear from anyone of the group with a tractor /IVO installation that = may have used a large diameter spinner to reduce and/or eliminate the drag from the root = section of the blades..... The 16 inch spinner will cover most but not all of this virtually = flat root section........ If the airframe/cowl will handle an 18 inch spinner then all of this root = section will be covered if I recall correctly (I am not at the hangar).........FWIW =20 =20 -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 -------------- Original message from "Mike Wills" = : --------------=20 > John,=20 >=20 > I looked pretty seriously at the IVO a number of years ago. But = was scared=20 > off by a number of things:=20 >=20 > 1) Watched Dave Atkins repairing a delaminated trailing edge on = the flight=20 > line at Copperstate fly-in.=20 > 2) A friend with a Kolb Firestar/Rotax 503/ground adjustable IVO = had the=20 > prop come apart in flight resulting in a forced landing that = totaled the=20 > plane.=20 > 3) Tracy's experience re reduced performance at speed.=20 > 4) The issues experienced by Lyc powered users.=20 >=20 > Numbers 1 & 2 were possibly due to something going through the = prop with the=20 > engine running. Issue 4 seems to be not relevant. This leaves = Tracy's=20 > experience with the IVO. I wasnt thinking about the fact that you = fly a=20 > pusher when I asked, but presumably a pusher would not have the = prop root=20 > issue that Tracy reported. On my RV-4 I use a much larger than = stock spinner=20 > and this issue may not be as significant as it was for Tracy. But = I'm not=20 > sure I want to buy one to find out. My current prop seems to be = pretty close=20 > though I havent flown it enough to really make a judgement.=20 >=20 > Thanks for the feedback.=20 >=20 > Mike Wills=20 > RV-4 N144MW=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "John Slade"=20 > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 > Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:41 PM=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop=20 >=20 >=20 > > >I didn't know anyone had ever had any success with an IVO. Tell = me more.=20 > > What do you want to know? Its a very well engineered piece of = equipment.=20 > > The CF blades are hollow and have a steel rod running to the = hub.=20 > > Activating the motor via brushes twists the steel and thus = twists the=20 > > blades equally. The twist change is quite visible. There were = problems=20 > > with the individual blades slipping on the hub. This has been = solved by=20 > > providing a knurled hub, and not selling to guys with Lycomings. = The IVO=20 > > is available for rotary, subaru, Franklin 6 and other less = "pulsy"=20 > > engines. After the first 15 hours or so my blades have hardly = taken any=20 > > extra torque.=20 > >=20 > > My performance is greatly enhanced compared to the fixed pitch = Performance=20 > > prop. Static with the wood prop was around 4500. With the IVO on = full fine=20 > > I get closer to 5400 which gives me access to a lot more power = on take=20 > > off. I've never done a "high speed" run with the IVO, but I've = had 180 kts=20 > > indicated at 2000' a few times without much effort, and without = ever going=20 > > to the full course setting. Another nice bonus is that throttled = back on=20 > > full fine for landing, the prop acts like a brake. Its much = easier to land=20 > > and stop than the fixed pitch that's pushing you along fairly = well, even=20 > > at idle.=20 > >=20 > > I know a Velocity driver (Mike Watson) who also uses an IVO = (Franklin 6)=20 > > and is very happy with it after around 5 years of use.=20 > >=20 > > The factory people are very easy to deal with and very helpful.=20 > >=20 > > The Cozy Girrrls are installing an IVO. What better = recommendation could=20 > > you want? :)=20 > >=20 > > Regards,=20 > > John Slade=20 > > Turbo Rotary Cozy IV, N96PM=20 > > 98.1 Hrs.=20 > >=20 > > Mike Wills wrote:=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> Mike Wills=20 > >> RV-4 N144MW=20 > >>=20 > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Slade"=20 > >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20 > >> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:30 AM=20 > >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ground Testing=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>> The IVO electric in-flight adjustable costs around $2350. I'm = very=20 > >>> pleased with mine. My "spare" is a $2700 fixed pitch wood prop = thats a=20 > >>> piece of art, but doesn't work anywhere near as well.=20 > >>> John=20 > >>>=20 > >>> Tracy Crook wrote:=20 > >>> A variable pitch prop would be nice to get the best of both = worlds but=20 > >>> it's an expensive option and $10,000 buys a lot of gas.=20 > >>>=20 > >>>=20 > >>>=20 > >>> --=20 > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > >>> Archive and UnSub:=20 > >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 > >>>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> --=20 > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > >> Archive and UnSub:=20 > >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 > >>=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --=20 > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > > Archive and UnSub:=20 > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C9A3D3.CFE0C150 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Kelly,
 
 No I didnt recall you had an IVO, = but did=20 know you had the Mustang spinner (thanks for the idea). I know at one = point=20 there was some talk of modifying the root section of the IVO by = adding=20 cuffs of some sort. Not a solution for me - that exceeds my comfort=20 level.
 
 There was a group working on a = variable pitch=20 prop over on Paul's list 5 years ago as an alternative to the IVO. I = assume=20 nothing ever came of that? It's been that long since I subscribed to = that=20 list.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kelly = Troyer
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 = 10:09=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO = Prop

Mike,
  Have been following this with much interest...........If = you may=20 recall I also have the "IVO"
for my "DELTA" and from previous posts (Some Time Ago) we = discussed how=20 to reduce
or eliminate the drag penalty of the flat virtually pitchless = root=20 section of the blades........I
had already decided to eliminate this drag by using the large 16 = inch=20 diameter "Mustang II"
spinner which I believe you have incorporated on your = "RV4"...........I=20 have spent the last
2.5 years watching after aging parents so am far behind with my = "DELTA"=20 and have not
been able to test my drag reduction theory for the = "IVO"..........I would=20 be very interested
to hear from anyone of the group with a tractor /IVO installation = that=20 may have used a large
diameter spinner to reduce and/or eliminate the drag from the = root=20 section of the blades.....
 
 The 16 inch spinner will cover most but not all of = this=20 virtually flat root section........ If  the
airframe/cowl will handle an 18 inch spinner then all of = this root=20 section will be covered if
I recall correctly (I am not at the=20 hangar).........FWIW  
 
   
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke = Delta"_13B=20 ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold=20



 
--------------=20 Original message from "Mike Wills" <rv-4mike@cox.net>: = --------------=20


> John,
>
> I looked pretty seriously = at the=20 IVO a number of years ago. But was scared
> off by a number = of=20 things:
>
> 1) Watched Dave Atkins repairing a = delaminated=20 trailing edge on the flight
> line at Copperstate fly-in. =
> 2)=20 A friend with a Kolb Firestar/Rotax 503/ground adjustable IVO had = the=20
> prop come apart in flight resulting in a forced landing = that=20 totaled the
> plane.
> 3) Tracy's experience re = reduced=20 performance at speed.
> 4) The issues experienced by Lyc = powered=20 users.
>
> Numbers 1 & 2 were possibly due to = something=20 going through the prop with the
> engine running. Issue 4 = seems to be=20 not relevant. This leaves Tracy's
> experience with the IVO. = I wasnt=20 thinking about the fact that you fly a
> pusher when I asked, = but=20 presumably a pusher would not have the prop root
> issue that = Tracy=20 reported. On my RV-4 I use a much larger than stock spinner
> = and=20 this issue may not be as significant as it was for Tracy. But I'm = not=20
> sure I want to buy one to find out. My current prop seems = to be=20 pretty close
> though I havent flown it enough to really make = a=20 judgement.
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
> =
> Mike=20 Wills
> RV-4 N144MW
>
>
>
> ----- = Original Message -----
> From: "John Slade"=20
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"=20
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 = 9:41 PM=20
> Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Prop
>
>
> = > >I=20 didn't know anyone had ever had any success with an IVO. Tell me = more.=20
> > What do you want to know? Its a very well engineered = piece of=20 equipment.
> > The CF blades are hollow and have a steel = rod=20 running to the hub.
> > Activating the motor via brushes = twists=20 the steel and thus twists the
> > blades equally. The = twist change=20 is quite visible. There were problems
> > with the = individual=20 blades slipping on the hub. This has been solved by
> > = providing=20 a knurled hub, and not selling to guys with Lycomings. The IVO =
> >=20 is available for rotary, subaru, Franklin 6 and other less "pulsy" =
>=20 > engines. After the first 15 hours or so my blades have hardly = taken any=20
> > extra torque.
> >
> > My = performance is=20 greatly enhanced compared to the fixed pitch Performance
> = > prop.=20 Static with the wood prop was around 4500. With the IVO on full fine =
> > I get closer to 5400 which gives me access to a lot = more power=20 on take
> > off. I've never done a "high speed" run with = the IVO,=20 but I've had 180 kts
> > indicated at 2000' a few times = without=20 much effort, and without ever going
> > to the full course = setting. Another nice bonus is that throttled back on
> > = full=20 fine for landing, the prop acts like a brake. Its much easier to = land=20
> > and stop than the fixed pitch that's pushing you along = fairly=20 well, even
> > at idle.
> >
> > I know = a=20 Velocity driver (Mike Watson) who also uses an IVO (Franklin 6) =
>=20 > and is very happy with it after around 5 years of use.
> = >=20
> > The factory people are very easy to deal with and very = helpful.
> >
> > The Cozy Girrrls are installing = an IVO.=20 What better recommendation could
> > you want? :)
> = >=20
> > Regards,
> > John Slade
> > Turbo = Rotary=20 Cozy IV, N96PM
> > 98.1 Hrs.
> >
> > = Mike=20 Wills wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> = Mike=20 Wills
> >> RV-4 N144MW
> >>
> = >>=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Slade"=20
> >> To: "Rotary motors in = aircraft"=20
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March = 10, 2009=20 10:30 AM
> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ground Testing =
>=20 >>
> >>
> >>> The IVO electric = in-flight=20 adjustable costs around $2350. I'm very
> >>> = pleased with=20 mine. My "spare" is a $2700 fixed pitch wood prop thats a
>=20 >>> piece of art, but doesn't work anywhere near as well. =
>=20 >>> John
> >>>
> >>> Tracy = Crook=20 wrote:
> >>> A variable pitch prop would be nice to = get the=20 best of both worlds but
> >>> it's an expensive = option and=20 $10,000 buys a lot of gas.
> >>>
> = >>>=20
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> = Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >>> Archive = and UnSub:=20
> >>>=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>=20 >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> =
>=20 >> --
> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ =
>=20 >> Archive and UnSub:
> >>=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> = >>=20
> >
> >
> > --
> > Homepage: = http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and UnSub:
> = >=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> = >=20
>
>
>
> --
> Homepage:=20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
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