X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao107.cox.net ([68.230.241.39] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3529682 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:18:58 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.39; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo01.cox.net ([70.169.32.71]) by fed1rmmtao107.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090306031822.CGEC10385.fed1rmmtao107.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Thu, 5 Mar 2009 22:18:22 -0500 Received: from wills ([68.105.85.56]) by fed1rmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id PfJL1b00E1CvZmk03fJNRy; Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:18:23 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=mI5N9dps1ioA:10 a=VNUe6yB6AAAA:8 a=FYN5-xcaAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=scrdV5uZFOq9BBDuSiAA:9 a=Y4nHSMkuR0AAsFN1phAA:7 a=pINLWY4Wrm1e0WIPiiZ4wf2f5QgA:4 a=ok68_o4NJqgA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=Q6QlOS7JIxeT18Gc:21 a=Smjz7Fp7TFxd3cEQ:21 a=YdlCwlLHAAAA:8 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=fr1XEqI5RC3LBgsBz3YA:9 a=E2T_xSarS814PWIFvnwA:7 a=kq4GbVd8-NhFMzxMfvl1E_-tPO4A:4 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 a=nl_73-6FQmUA:10 a=4vB-4DCPJfMA:10 a=11b4oDr9Sj6yzDLF:21 a=YfntHHQeO1bH_7D6:21 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <006101c99e0a$3383b160$38556944@wills> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel economy - Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2009 19:18:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01C99DC7.250F6B30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3350 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C99DC7.250F6B30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Patrick, Unfortunately I'll still be flying off 40 hours. But thanks for the = announcement. I'm gonna talk my buddy into flying over in his Mooney to = check it out. I used to fly my glider out of Jean quite a bit. Pretty decent soaring = conditions. My first glider cross country was a 120 mile out and return = at Jean. Hotel rooms at the Gold Strike and Nevada Landing (now = defunct) are dirt cheap but Jean is a bit of an armpit. Nice terminal = building though. Looking forward to it - brings back some memories. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Patrick Panzera=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:13 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel economy -=20 Well. Here's the place to hold a performance event: http://www.ContactMagazine.com/roundup.html And I can guarantee that the results will be published in CONTACT! = Magazine=20 and EAA's Experimenter. http://eaa.org/experimenter/ .after all, I'm sleeping with the wife of the editor of both = publications. Pat -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:50 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel economy -=20 There was an article in the May 2006 issue of Sport Aviation. Two = RV-8s powered by Powersport Rotaries compared to two of Van's factory = demo RV-8s. Time to climb and speeds were pretty comparable. The rotary = powered airplanes were a little heavier. Fuel consumption for a 160 mile = out and return flight the rotaries burned 12.9 and 11.5 gallons while = the Lyc powered RVs burned 8.9 and 9.5 gallons. Cruise portion of the = flight was rotaries 7.85 and 7.1, Lycs 5.05 and 5.45. My guess is that if the pilots could have aggressively leaned the = numbers would be closer but the rotaries were equipped with Powersport's = FADEC. No idea what it does with mixture. Anyway its articles like this that perpetuate the ideas about = rotaries being gas hogs. Until we generate some numbers to contradict, = this is going to be the perception. If you guys generate the numbers = I'll volunteer to write the magazine article! I should also mention that the Powersport RVs looked WAYYYY cooler = than the Lyc powered RVs! Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:27 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel economy -=20 Mark wrote: Most are just plain scared to run their engines lean of peak where = they are able to get close to the "advertised" bsfc. That seems to be the rule. I chatted yesterday with a hangar = neighbor with his beautiful Lancair Legacy with Continental 550. Does = he run lean of peak? "Eh-h, well, I tried it, but it sounded different, = and I hear the valves don't last as long; so I run it rich of peak. = It's a few more dollars, but cheap insurance" Alcohol and possible vapor lock are the only issues I know of, and = with a properly designed EFI fuel system, vapor lock isn't an issue. As = long as they don't start blending alcohol in the fuel in my neck of the = woods, I'll keep burning mogas and pocketing the difference. =20 I did the ethanol test on my auto fuel yesterday. Within the = accuracy of the test, the fuel had between 4 and 6% ethanol - consistent = with what Mike said regarding CA fuels. So I got out my light and = little my mirror and stiff wire with a sharp end; and inspected my = fiberglass/EZpoxy fuel tanks. No sign of any softening of the surfaces; = no sign of anything happening. Nothing in the fuel filter. So far, so = good. So I'll keep runnin' with auto fuel - certainly when near my home = base. Saves close to $15 for every hour of flying - including the 6 - 8 = cents/ga for the 2-cycle oil (SuperTech 2-stroke oil, $10.97/ga at = Walmart, mix =BE oz per ga.). You stated, "But really the biggest motivation was to do something a = little different." As for that statement... I couldn't agree more, but = how do you quantify something like that? =20 I like to put it differently: "But really the biggest motivation = was to do something a little better."=20 Al G ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01C99DC7.250F6B30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Patrick,
 
 Unfortunately I'll still be = flying off 40=20 hours. But thanks for the announcement. I'm gonna talk my buddy into = flying over=20 in his Mooney to check it out.
 
 I used to fly my glider out of = Jean quite a=20 bit. Pretty decent soaring conditions. My first glider cross country was = a 120=20 mile out and return at Jean.  Hotel rooms at the Gold Strike = and=20 Nevada Landing (now defunct) are dirt cheap but Jean is a bit of an = armpit. Nice=20 terminal building though. Looking forward to it - brings back some=20 memories.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Patrick Panzera =
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 = 8:13=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel = economy -=20

Well=85

 

Here=92s = the place to=20 hold a performance event:

 

http://www.ContactMa= gazine.com/roundup.html

 

And I can = guarantee=20 that the results will be published in CONTACT! Magazine =

and EAA=92s = Experimenter.  http://eaa.org/experimenter/

=85after = all, I=92m=20 sleeping with the wife of the editor of both = publications.

 

Pat

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike = Wills
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 = 7:50=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Fuel economy -

 

There was an article in = the May=20 2006 issue of Sport Aviation. Two RV-8s powered by Powersport Rotaries = compared to two of Van's factory demo RV-8s. Time to climb and speeds = were=20 pretty comparable. The rotary powered airplanes were a little heavier. = Fuel=20 consumption for a 160 mile out and return flight the rotaries burned = 12.9 and=20 11.5 gallons while the Lyc powered RVs burned 8.9 and 9.5 gallons. = Cruise=20 portion of the flight was rotaries 7.85 and 7.1, Lycs 5.05 and=20 5.45.

 

 My guess is that = if the=20 pilots could have aggressively leaned the numbers would be closer but = the=20 rotaries were equipped with = Powersport's=20 FADEC. No idea what it does with mixture.

 

 Anyway its = articles like=20 this that perpetuate the ideas about rotaries being gas hogs. Until we = generate some numbers to contradict, this is going to be the = perception. If=20 you guys generate the numbers I'll volunteer to write the magazine=20 article!

 

 I should also = mention that=20 the Powersport RVs looked WAYYYY cooler than the Lyc powered=20 RVs!

 

Mike = Wills

RV-4=20 N144MW

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Al = Gietzen=20

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:27 AM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Fuel economy -

 

Mark=20 wrote:

Most are just plain scared = to run their=20 engines lean of peak where they are able to get close to the=20 "advertised" bsfc.

 

That = seems to be=20 the rule.  I chatted yesterday with a hangar neighbor with his=20 beautiful Lancair Legacy with Continental 550.  Does he run = lean of=20 peak? =93Eh-h, well, I tried it, but it sounded different, and I = hear the=20 valves don=92t last as long; so I run it rich of peak.  It=92s = a few more=20 dollars, but cheap insurance=94

 

Alcohol and possible = vapor=20 lock are the only issues I know of, and with a properly = designed=20 EFI fuel system, vapor lock isn't an issue.  As long as = they don't=20 start blending alcohol in the fuel in my neck of the woods, = I'll=20 keep burning mogas and pocketing the difference. =20

I did = the ethanol=20 test on my auto fuel yesterday. Within the accuracy of the test, the = fuel=20 had between 4 and 6% ethanol =96 consistent with what Mike said = regarding CA=20 fuels.  So I got out my light and little my mirror and stiff = wire with=20 a sharp end; and inspected my fiberglass/EZpoxy fuel tanks. No sign = of any=20 softening of the surfaces; no sign of anything happening. Nothing in = the=20 fuel filter. So far, so good.

So = I=92ll keep=20 runnin=92 with auto fuel =96 certainly when near my home base. =  Saves close=20 to $15 for every hour of flying =96 including the 6 =96 8 cents/ga = for the=20 2-cycle oil (SuperTech 2-stroke oil, $10.97/ga at Walmart, mix =BE = oz per=20 ga.).

 

You stated, "But really the = biggest=20 motivation was to do something a little different."  As for = that=20 statement... I couldn't agree more, but how do you quantify = something like=20 that? 

I = like to put=20 it differently: "But really the biggest motivation = was to=20 do something a little better." 

Al=20 = G

 

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