X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f168.google.com ([209.85.220.168] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with ESMTP id 3522879 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 01 Mar 2009 22:46:42 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.168; envelope-from=fluffysheap@gmail.com Received: by fxm12 with SMTP id 12so2583633fxm.19 for ; Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:46:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=dzbpIK3CRO5Vyi+nvP2x0QplNc34Ko7tgfbe8oDNAp4=; b=IpNZkje2D4lfQ/OLl2Xciq4dbUgFFMcRbG07MQ4V2M+DyQK9B55jfvl9DWkGT+frEh 2MD/sLhykSy/bIe+xs6G+rXgYwx8xCj9BhUXKjslR90IKotY6aiXRe/1kEb8BXRX66J5 ihIeTPOiQzUss+h4SnWezn5aGtCXGyEWAPy7I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=YSV24PFGZjAvBVHF7KB8oM6wuu32L/mvtjgt+GKM1+MifSDvdrDblVSktU0fqFJ3dB wfw/3LL0y1+FpCczgeeZkT32b6u5EFOE2hRYn/US2Tv+RA9AyS1pDOz622kil82mr9Q/ uqK0YdXfLmTE619t+QJUzAAe5BDlj6GAMpVM0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.103.213.10 with SMTP id p10mr2716359muq.17.1235965564513; Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:46:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 19:46:04 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Questions on buying a rotary plane From: William Wilson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b2446d6c4704641aa84d --001636c5b2446d6c4704641aa84d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is great news. Thanks Charlie and Bob :) On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Charlie England wrote: > William Wilson wrote: > >> I am in the market for a plane and would prefer a rotary-powered, as I >> have lots of experience working with rotary engines. As a bonus, homebuilt >> planes all seem to get about twice as much fuel economy as factory built >> planes. So that is nice too. I know there are a few rotary powered planes >> available for sale, but not too many. >> >> I have neither the time nor desire to build my own plane, so my question >> is more about maintenance and inspections. I'm not an official A&P and I >> don't know if I will be able to find an A&P to work on a home built plane >> with a car engine in it! I am happy to do engine maintenance, but am not >> entirely clear on the legality of it, since I would not be the original >> builder. >> >> Similarly when it is eventually time for an engine rebuild, would I be >> able to remove the engine, take it down to Atkins (who are not far from me) >> and have them rebuild it, or rebuild it myself, and then reinstall it, and >> find an A&P to just sign off on the work? >> >> Plan B is to buy whatever plane even if it has a Lycosaurus, but when time >> for overhaul comes, get rid of the Lycoming and replace it with a rotary. >> Thought in this case is to get the rotary tuned, a little broken in and >> running on a stand in the hangar in advance, so that when the time comes to >> do the swap it can be done with a minimum of downtime. (I know it cannot >> really be tuned for altitude in this way but it is better than nothing!). >> But again, the fact that I would not be the original builder makes me worry >> about legalities. I have heard that this has been done so question is more >> about the how. >> >> I do not really understand all the law involved and hopefully somebody >> here can help. Thanks! >> > > I can't speak with authority, but I can speak from experience. > > Experimental homebuilts can be maintained or modified by anyone. No FAA > blessings required. Annual condition inspections must be performed by either > the holder of the 'repairman's certificate' (only available to the builder > of record) or by the holder of an A&P ticket (no IA required). > > Once the airworthiness certificate is awarded, *anyone* can do any > maintenance, repairs, modifications etc desired. The post-modification > requirements vary somewhat from plane to plane depending on when the a/w was > issued, but in general terms, you notify the FAA in writing that major mods > were made, ask for a defined test area, make a log entry detailing the > return to 'phase one' testing, fly test flights for (typically) 5 hours, > then make another log entry saying that the plane has been tested with the > mods & is being returned to 'phase two' (normal operational) status. > > 'Major modification' isn't clearly defined, but if you have to ask, it's > major. :-) > > The availability of an A&P to sign off condition inspections is all over > the map (literally). It's never been a problem for me, but in some parts of > the country people can't find an A&P who will sign off *any* homebuilt, no > matter what engine. If you have that problem, get to know the guys who sign > off the crop dusters in your area. > > Hope that helps.... > > Charlie > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --001636c5b2446d6c4704641aa84d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is great news.=A0 Thanks Charlie and Bob :)

On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 7:34 PM, Charlie England &= lt;ceengland@bellsouth.net&g= t; wrote:
William Wilson wrote:
I am in the market for a plane and would prefer a rotary-powered, as I have= lots of experience working with rotary engines. =A0As a bonus, homebuilt p= lanes all seem to get about twice as much fuel economy as factory built pla= nes. =A0So that is nice too. =A0I know there are a few rotary powered plane= s available for sale, but not too many.

I have neither the time nor desire to build my own plane, so my question is= more about maintenance and inspections. =A0I'm not an official A&P= and I don't know if I will be able to find an A&P to work on a hom= e built plane with a car engine in it! =A0I am happy to do engine maintenan= ce, but am not entirely clear on the legality of it, since I would not be t= he original builder.

Similarly when it is eventually time for an engine rebuild, would I be able= to remove the engine, take it down to Atkins (who are not far from me) and= have them rebuild it, or rebuild it myself, and then reinstall it, and fin= d an A&P to just sign off on the work?

Plan B is to buy whatever plane even if it has a Lycosaurus, but when time = for overhaul comes, get rid of the Lycoming and replace it with a rotary. = =A0Thought in this case is to get the rotary tuned, a little broken in and = running on a stand in the hangar in advance, so that when the time comes to= do the swap it can be done with a minimum of downtime. =A0(I know it canno= t really be tuned for altitude in this way but it is better than nothing!).= =A0But again, the fact that I would not be the original builder makes me w= orry about legalities. =A0I have heard that this has been done so question = is more about the how.

I do not really understand all the law involved and hopefully somebody here= can help. =A0Thanks!

I can't speak with authority, but I can speak from experience.

Experimental homebuilts can be maintained or modified by anyone. No FAA ble= ssings required. Annual condition inspections must be performed by either t= he holder of the 'repairman's certificate' (only available to t= he builder of record) or by the holder of an A&P ticket (no IA required= ).

Once the airworthiness certificate is awarded, *anyone* can do any maintena= nce, repairs, modifications etc desired. The post-modification requirements= vary somewhat from plane to plane depending on when the a/w was issued, bu= t in general terms, you notify the FAA in writing that major mods were made= , ask for a defined test area, make a log entry detailing the return to = 9;phase one' testing, fly test flights for (typically) 5 hours, then ma= ke another log entry saying that the plane has been tested with the mods &a= mp; is being returned to 'phase two' (normal operational) status.
'Major modification' isn't clearly defined, but if you have to = ask, it's major. :-)

The availability of an A&P to sign off condition inspections is all ove= r the map (literally). It's never been a problem for me, but in some pa= rts of the country people can't find an A&P who will sign off =A0*a= ny* homebuilt, no matter what engine. If you have that problem, =A0get to k= now the guys who sign off the crop dusters in your area.

Hope that helps....

Charlie

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