X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from web50707.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.38.105] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.12) with SMTP id 3451618 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:31:56 -0500 Received: (qmail 75682 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Jan 2009 15:31:55 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=31dNHOWdpFwaRx6X316XFVk4qmS3czo54u5qig9DC/d2IQjr3fUukSmD0K5AfwWFTRd/flbzJwMM1Ii6rdZYhXxGfV7thhaBeVV6ur9CC2tQ0FbJS1jLe0Gbq1sNv71CeKJbm+9YAk8HS766s9vARxOGED+NUYvkPNPITHhztyU=; X-YMail-OSG: WxGIRLIVM1nhubssBHCwnIqIFFUNa_HEhtG0YiBIefqJSSxY7FppPHxcBNSc6hhqvXMxGMJwKHPdlkBO2cZ6tAbMBzEtz9FIwRnIKq0Nv5abPT8PQhmk7qUR.xVQBPAxI1SdrWjuNkMDjUBJFIloBM5dWewEnnXdtdk.Hl12V79Dep.EpfDVgn_IyYEpEzzFbqJVaS8CYoEkcI6dcF5.l5fVLKrjrqMb6zg. Received: from [71.49.179.220] by web50707.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 07:31:55 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.7.260.1 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 07:31:55 -0800 (PST) From: fpbjr2001@yahoo.com Reply-To: fpbjr2001@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <582370.75591.qm@web50707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> mark thanks for the input. i have always thought the ES is relativly easy to fly. but i do know it slides though the air with a lot less drag than most. to me like most things you have to gradually work up in stages. thanks paul --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Mark Steitle wrote: > From: Mark Steitle > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 6:41 AM > Paul, > > That sounds like a good plan. My only comment is to not > get too worked up > over it being a "Lancair". I had been told the > ES flies like a 172, very > docile and predictable, and its true. I had asked around > and couldn't find > anyone locally that would let me fly left seat in their ES, > even tried > taking instruction in a Cirrus (the jerks at the flight > school wouldn't even > reutrn my pnone calls). > > So, I went to plan B. Before I flew my ES, I got an hour > of instruction in > a 182RG with C/S prop. That got me my high-performance and > complex > endorsements. To get used to flying a side stick, I > practiced on Flight > Simulator with a joystick (left hand) until it felt > natural. I also did a > lot of fast taxi runs, getting used to keeping it going > straight down the > runway, getting the feel of how much right rudder would be > required, and > raising the nose to see how it felt and looked out the > windscreen in climb > and flair; and getting used to the additional power of the > 3-rotor. When > the day came, I didn't have any trouble flying the ES. > I don't recommend > this approach with a IV-P, Legacy, 360, etc. I'm not > saying not to get > adequate training, only to not get too worked up over it > being a "Lancair", > therefore extrememly difficult to fly. > > Mark > > > On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 11:51 AM, > wrote: > > > ed > > in this market i do not think it will sell so if i > pass my medical next > > month i'm going to do a condition inspection on it > and build my 10 hrs high > > performance time my DAR said i needed before i fly it. > if i can settle all > > issues with lou i will fly it. > > may see you at sun-n-fun whether we have the plane or > not. > > paul brannon N117ES > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson > wrote: > > > > > From: Ed Anderson > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ > Run / 20B numbers > > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 5:43 PM > > > Hi Paul, > > > > > > Good to hear from you. Thanks for the real > figures on your > > > turbo 3 rotor, > > > couldn't remember them offhand. > > > > > > I hope the "may fly yet" means it stays > in the > > > family? Or do you simply > > > have a good home for it? > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > Ed Anderson > > > > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > > > > Matthews, NC > > > > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > > > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > > > Behalf Of fpbjr2001@yahoo.com > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:31 PM > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ > Run / 20B > > > numbers > > > > > > ed > > > dyno reading of 580hp with 10 lbs boost and 386 > ft/lb > > > torque at 5500 rpm. > > > not sold yet. and may fly yet. > > > paul brannon N117ES > > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Ed Anderson > > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's > BBQ Run / > > > 20B numbers > > > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:10 PM > > > > Should be a fire belching dragon of an > engine at over > > > 15psi, > > > > Greg. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 15 Psi boost would be roughly 60" Hg > of boost > > > which > > > > at an A/F ratio of 12 > > > > (assume you would run it a bit rich at those > boost > > > levels) > > > > would give at > > > > 6000 rpm approx 550 HP burning 51 gph (more > power at > > > high > > > > rpm and boost > > > > naturally) and producing a total of 25000 > BTU/Min of > > > heat > > > > to be dumped > > > > through the radiator and oil cooler. Boy, > you will > > > produce > > > > more heat energy > > > > that gets dumped through your oil cooler > (8484 > > > BTU/Min) > > > > than my total > > > > (coolant and oil heat) entire engine puts > out. Hope > > > you > > > > have big radiators > > > > and oil cooler {:>). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A couple of guys in South Carolina had a > turbo 3 rotor > > > that > > > > they stated > > > > produced over 500 HP on the dyno. It flew, > but > > > > unfortunately only one > > > > flight, before one of the partners decided > they were > > > not > > > > true experimenters > > > > and they decided to sell the project. It > was really a > > > nice > > > > looking set up > > > > on a Lancair ES. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed Anderson > > > > > > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > > > > > > Matthews, NC > > > > > > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > > > > > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > > > > Behalf Of Greg Ward > > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:53 AM > > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's > BBQ Run / > > > 20B > > > > numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Ed; > > > > > > > > We are running a 4088 Garrett hair dryer, > starting at > > > about > > > > 15# of boost, > > > > and are extensively flow testing both the > exhaust and > > > > induction for best > > > > efficiency/output. That's why the > pictures, show > > > > everything a little bit > > > > different from what everyone else has done. > Trying > > > for > > > > optimum runner > > > > length, as little back pressure as possible, > early > > > heat > > > > removal, etc. > > > > Haven't got any real numbers down yet, > until we > > > > (finally) get on the dyno > > > > but based on what a stock 360hp Cosmo gets > for > > > mileage, and > > > > going from > > > > there, we are convinced that fuel flows > should be > > > pretty > > > > good. That's why > > > > they call it > "experimental".....(:-) > > > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Ed > > > > Anderson > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Rotary > > > > > motors in aircraft > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:42 AM > > > > > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] HP was : Mark's BBQ > Run / 20B > > > > numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Greg, well, if the fuel burn figure > reported was > > > correct > > > > - then the HP > > > > figures I calculated are in the ball park. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We know the 3 rotor is capable of producing > > > considerably > > > > more power at sea > > > > level (per Al's dyno run with his 3 > rotor) with > > > the > > > > higher air density. > > > > However, at altitude the upper limit would > naturally > > > be > > > > less due to the less > > > > dense air to support combustion, unless you > are > > > running > > > > some sort of forced > > > > induction as in a turbo, supercharger or > perhaps > > > nitrous > > > > oxide chemical > > > > enhancement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if the fuel burn was 15 gph, then it > does not > > > matter > > > > whether it was a 2 > > > > rotor, 3 rotor or 1 rotor (a 1 rotor would > really have > > > to > > > > be screaming to > > > > burn at that rate {:>)), the approx HP > equation > > > is: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HP = (Gallon/Hour) *( 6 lb gasoline/gallon ) > /BSFC = > > > > 15*6/0.55 = 90/0.55 = > > > > 163 HP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now if you choose a different BSFC such as > 0.49 then > > > you > > > > get a better > > > > conversion. But, I tend to be conservative > in my > > > > estimates. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed Anderson > > > > > > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > > > > > > Matthews, NC > > > > > > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > > > > > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > > > > Behalf Of Greg Ward > > > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:20 AM > > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run > / 20B > > > numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agree to that. Our projections on the turbo > 20B are > > > much > > > > higher than that. > > > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: Al Gietzen > > > > > > > > > To: Rotary > > > > > motors in aircraft > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:13 PM > > > > > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run > / 20B > > > numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems like your numbers are about 100 hp - > or maybe > > > one > > > > rotor - too low. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Al G > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > > > > Behalf Of Ed Anderson > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:34 PM > > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run > / 20B > > > numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug, at 15 gph at 6000 rpm, Mark would be > making > > > approx > > > > 165 HP, perhaps a > > > > bit more, using a very conservative BSFC of > 0.55. If > > > you > > > > assume a bit > > > > better BSFC of 0.49 it would be around 183 > HP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed Anderson > > > > > > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > > > > > > Matthews, NC > > > > > > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > > > > > > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > > > > Behalf Of DLOMHEIM@aol.com > > > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:38 PM > > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Mark's BBQ Run / > 20B numbers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Great story...thanks for posting it! At > 6,000 rpm and > > > 15 > > > > gph, how many HP > > > > do you think you're developing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, have you by chance flown side by side > with > > > another > > > > Lycoming powered ES > > > > for comparison purposes? If so what did you > learn? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're going to have a couple of > "burger > > > > burns" at our airport ((2OK2) just > > > > east of Tinker AFB) this Spring / Summer, so > maybe > > > > you'll feel like going on > > > > a short cross country up this way and show > our little > > > EAA > > > > chapter what a > > > > three rotor looks and sounds like?! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blue Skies > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > RV-9A, 13B > > > > > > > > Organizing the hanger for Spring FWF and > canopy work! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > > > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See > > > > > > > < > > > http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=htt > > > > > > > p:// > > > www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=Dec > > > > emailfooterNO62> yours in just 2 easy > steps! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > Antivirus, > > > version > > > > of virus signature > > > > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > > > > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. > > > > > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > Antivirus, > > > version > > > > of virus signature > > > > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > > > > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. > > > > > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 > Antivirus, > > > version > > > > of virus signature > > > > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > > > > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 > Antivirus. > > > > > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > Archive and UnSub: > > > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, > version > > > of virus signature > > > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > > > > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > Archive and UnSub: > > > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >