X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.11) with ESMTP id 3441048 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:43:41 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090123224304.KVDT15744.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@computername> for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 22:43:04 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:43:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Acl9qjyEQ/aUPKqsSeOOIEFqvj2pPwAAYBZw In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Message-Id: <20090123224304.KVDT15744.cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com@computername> Hi Paul, Good to hear from you. Thanks for the real figures on your turbo 3 rotor, couldn't remember them offhand. I hope the "may fly yet" means it stays in the family? Or do you simply have a good home for it? Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of fpbjr2001@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:31 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers ed dyno reading of 580hp with 10 lbs boost and 386 ft/lb torque at 5500 rpm. not sold yet. and may fly yet. paul brannon N117ES --- On Fri, 1/23/09, Ed Anderson wrote: > From: Ed Anderson > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 3:10 PM > Should be a fire belching dragon of an engine at over 15psi, > Greg. > > > > 15 Psi boost would be roughly 60" Hg of boost which > at an A/F ratio of 12 > (assume you would run it a bit rich at those boost levels) > would give at > 6000 rpm approx 550 HP burning 51 gph (more power at high > rpm and boost > naturally) and producing a total of 25000 BTU/Min of heat > to be dumped > through the radiator and oil cooler. Boy, you will produce > more heat energy > that gets dumped through your oil cooler (8484 BTU/Min) > than my total > (coolant and oil heat) entire engine puts out. Hope you > have big radiators > and oil cooler {:>). > > > > A couple of guys in South Carolina had a turbo 3 rotor that > they stated > produced over 500 HP on the dyno. It flew, but > unfortunately only one > flight, before one of the partners decided they were not > true experimenters > and they decided to sell the project. It was really a nice > looking set up > on a Lancair ES. > > > > Ed > > > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > _____ > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Greg Ward > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:53 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B > numbers > > > > Hey Ed; > > We are running a 4088 Garrett hair dryer, starting at about > 15# of boost, > and are extensively flow testing both the exhaust and > induction for best > efficiency/output. That's why the pictures, show > everything a little bit > different from what everyone else has done. Trying for > optimum runner > length, as little back pressure as possible, early heat > removal, etc. > Haven't got any real numbers down yet, until we > (finally) get on the dyno > but based on what a stock 360hp Cosmo gets for mileage, and > going from > there, we are convinced that fuel flows should be pretty > good. That's why > they call it "experimental".....(:-) > > Greg > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ed Anderson > > > To: Rotary > motors in aircraft > > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:42 AM > > Subject: [FlyRotary] HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B > numbers > > > > Hi Greg, well, if the fuel burn figure reported was correct > - then the HP > figures I calculated are in the ball park. > > > > We know the 3 rotor is capable of producing considerably > more power at sea > level (per Al's dyno run with his 3 rotor) with the > higher air density. > However, at altitude the upper limit would naturally be > less due to the less > dense air to support combustion, unless you are running > some sort of forced > induction as in a turbo, supercharger or perhaps nitrous > oxide chemical > enhancement. > > > > But if the fuel burn was 15 gph, then it does not matter > whether it was a 2 > rotor, 3 rotor or 1 rotor (a 1 rotor would really have to > be screaming to > burn at that rate {:>)), the approx HP equation is: > > > > HP = (Gallon/Hour) *( 6 lb gasoline/gallon ) /BSFC = > 15*6/0.55 = 90/0.55 = > 163 HP. > > > > Now if you choose a different BSFC such as 0.49 then you > get a better > conversion. But, I tend to be conservative in my > estimates. > > > > Best Regards > > > > Ed > > > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > > _____ > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Greg Ward > Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:20 AM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers > > > > Agree to that. Our projections on the turbo 20B are much > higher than that. > > Greg > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Al Gietzen > > To: Rotary > motors in aircraft > > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:13 PM > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers > > > > Ed; > > > > Seems like your numbers are about 100 hp - or maybe one > rotor - too low. > > > > Al G > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of Ed Anderson > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:34 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers > > > > Doug, at 15 gph at 6000 rpm, Mark would be making approx > 165 HP, perhaps a > bit more, using a very conservative BSFC of 0.55. If you > assume a bit > better BSFC of 0.49 it would be around 183 HP. > > > > > > Ed > > > > Ed Anderson > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > http://www.andersonee.com > > > http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html > > http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > > > _____ > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On > Behalf Of DLOMHEIM@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:38 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers > > > > Mark: > > > > Great story...thanks for posting it! At 6,000 rpm and 15 > gph, how many HP > do you think you're developing? > > > > Also, have you by chance flown side by side with another > Lycoming powered ES > for comparison purposes? If so what did you learn? > > > > We're going to have a couple of "burger > burns" at our airport ((2OK2) just > east of Tinker AFB) this Spring / Summer, so maybe > you'll feel like going on > a short cross country up this way and show our little EAA > chapter what a > three rotor looks and sounds like?! > > > > Blue Skies > > > > Doug > > RV-9A, 13B > > Organizing the hanger for Spring FWF and canopy work! > > > > > _____ > > > A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See > p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=Dec > emailfooterNO62> yours in just 2 easy steps! > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version > of virus signature > database 3267 (20080714) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com