X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.96] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.11) with ESMTP id 3440251 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 10:51:37 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.30.96; envelope-from=gregw@onestopdesign.biz Received: from OMTA11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.36]) by QMTA09.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 70HM1b00C0mlR8UA93r19A; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:51:01 +0000 Received: from osd1 ([24.6.40.29]) by OMTA11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 73r01b00G0dkeQQ8X3r0bS; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:51:01 +0000 Message-ID: <8208302E87C746BB8C7CA0EE2453542A@yosemite.onestopdesign.biz> From: "Greg Ward" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 07:53:03 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_097E_01C97D2F.9E921B00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_097E_01C97D2F.9E921B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Ed; We are running a 4088 Garrett hair dryer, starting at about 15# of = boost, and are extensively flow testing both the exhaust and induction = for best efficiency/output. That's why the pictures, show everything a = little bit different from what everyone else has done. Trying for = optimum runner length, as little back pressure as possible, early heat = removal, etc. Haven't got any real numbers down yet, until we (finally) = get on the dyno but based on what a stock 360hp Cosmo gets for mileage, = and going from there, we are convinced that fuel flows should be pretty = good. That's why they call it "experimental".....(:-) Greg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:42 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] HP was : Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers Hi Greg, well, if the fuel burn figure reported was correct - then the = HP figures I calculated are in the ball park. =20 We know the 3 rotor is capable of producing considerably more power at = sea level (per Al's dyno run with his 3 rotor) with the higher air = density. However, at altitude the upper limit would naturally be less = due to the less dense air to support combustion, unless you are running = some sort of forced induction as in a turbo, supercharger or perhaps = nitrous oxide chemical enhancement.=20 =20 But if the fuel burn was 15 gph, then it does not matter whether it = was a 2 rotor, 3 rotor or 1 rotor (a 1 rotor would really have to be = screaming to burn at that rate {:>)), the approx HP equation is: =20 HP =3D (Gallon/Hour) *( 6 lb gasoline/gallon ) /BSFC =3D 15*6/0.55 =3D = 90/0.55 =3D 163 HP. =20 Now if you choose a different BSFC such as 0.49 then you get a better = conversion. But, I tend to be conservative in my estimates. =20 Best Regards =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Greg Ward Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:20 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers =20 Agree to that. Our projections on the turbo 20B are much higher than = that. Greg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:13 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers =20 Ed; =20 Seems like your numbers are about 100 hp - or maybe one rotor - too = low. =20 Al G =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:34 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers =20 Doug, at 15 gph at 6000 rpm, Mark would be making approx 165 HP, = perhaps a bit more, using a very conservative BSFC of 0.55. If you = assume a bit better BSFC of 0.49 it would be around 183 HP. =20 =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of DLOMHEIM@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:38 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Mark's BBQ Run / 20B numbers =20 Mark: =20 Great story...thanks for posting it! At 6,000 rpm and 15 gph, how = many HP do you think you're developing? =20 Also, have you by chance flown side by side with another Lycoming = powered ES for comparison purposes? If so what did you learn? =20 We're going to have a couple of "burger burns" at our airport = ((2OK2) just east of Tinker AFB) this Spring / Summer, so maybe you'll = feel like going on a short cross country up this way and show our little = EAA chapter what a three rotor looks and sounds like?! =20 =20 Blue Skies =20 Doug RV-9A, 13B Organizing the hanger for Spring FWF and canopy work! =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_097E_01C97D2F.9E921B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Ed;
We are running a 4088 Garrett hair dryer, = starting at=20 about 15# of boost, and are extensively flow testing both the exhaust = and=20 induction for best efficiency/output.  That's why the = pictures, show=20 everything a little bit different from what everyone else has = done.  Trying=20 for optimum runner length, as little back pressure as possible, early = heat=20 removal, etc.  Haven't got any real numbers down yet, until we = (finally)=20 get on the dyno but based on what a stock 360hp Cosmo gets for mileage, = and=20 going from there, we are convinced that fuel flows should be pretty = good. =20 That's why they call it "experimental".....(:-)
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 = 5:42=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] HP was : = Mark's BBQ=20 Run / 20B numbers

Hi Greg, = well, if the=20 fuel burn figure reported was correct - then the HP figures I = calculated are=20 in the ball park.

 

We know the = 3 rotor=20 is capable of producing considerably more power at sea level (per = Al=92s dyno=20 run with his 3 rotor) with the higher air density.   =  However,=20 at altitude the upper limit would naturally be less due to the less = dense air=20 to support combustion, unless you are running some sort of forced = induction as=20 in a turbo, supercharger or perhaps nitrous oxide chemical = enhancement.=20

 

 But = if the fuel=20 burn was 15 gph, then it does not matter whether it was a 2 rotor, 3 = rotor or=20 1 rotor (a 1 rotor would really have to be screaming to burn at that = rate=20 {:>)),  the approx HP equation = is:

 

HP =3D = (Gallon/Hour) *(=20 6 lb gasoline/gallon ) /BSFC =3D 15*6/0.55 =3D 90/0.55 =3D 163=20 HP.

 

Now if you = choose a=20 different BSFC such as 0.49 then you get a better conversion.  = But, I=20 tend to be conservative in my estimates.

 

Best=20 Regards

 

Ed

 

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A = N494BW Rotary=20 Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Greg Ward
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 = 12:20=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's = BBQ Run /=20 20B numbers

 

Agree to that. Our projections on the turbo = 20B are=20 much higher than that.

Greg

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Al = Gietzen=20

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Thursday, January 22, 2009 9:13 = PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Mark's BBQ Run / 20B=20 numbers

 

Ed;

 

Seems = like your=20 numbers are about 100 hp - or maybe one rotor =96 too=20 low.

 

Al=20 G

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Thursday, January 22, = 2009 8:34=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Mark's BBQ Run=20 / 20B numbers

 

Doug,=20 at 15 gph at 6000 rpm, Mark would be making approx 165 HP, perhaps a = bit=20 more, using a very conservative  BSFC of 0.55.  If you = assume a=20 bit better BSFC of 0.49 it would be around 183=20 HP.

 

 

Ed

 

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A=20 N494BW Rotary Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html<= o:p>

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of DLOMHEIM@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 22, = 2009 9:38=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Mark's = BBQ Run /=20 20B numbers

 

Mark:

 

Great=20 story...thanks for posting it!  At 6,000 rpm and 15 gph, how=20 many HP do you think you're=20 developing?

 

Also,=20 have you by chance flown side by side with another Lycoming powered = ES for=20 comparison purposes?  If so what did you=20 learn?

 

We're=20 going to have a couple of "burger burns" at our airport ((2OK2) = just=20 east of Tinker AFB) this Spring / Summer, so maybe you'll feel like = going on=20 a short cross country up this way and show our little EAA = chapter=20 what a three rotor looks and sounds like?! =20

 

Blue=20 Skies

 

Doug

RV-9A,=20 13B

Organizing the=20 hanger for Spring FWF and canopy = work!

 

A=20 Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See=20 yours in just 2 easy steps!



__________=20 Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature = database=20 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET = NOD32=20 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com



__________ Information from ESET = NOD32=20 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714)=20 __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 = Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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