Return-Path: Received: from fed1mtao06.cox.net ([68.6.19.125] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 2760392 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:44:21 -0500 Received: from BigAl ([68.107.116.221]) by fed1mtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20031121164416.BWTV8432.fed1mtao06.cox.net@BigAl> for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:44:16 -0500 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Radiator size Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:44:20 -0800 Message-ID: <000001c3b04e$b6642560$6400a8c0@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B00B.A840E560" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B00B.A840E560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The only problem is, I don't know anybody in the amateur-builder community who is doing this, and I don't know whether the cores that you folks are using come with the necessary information already provided by the manufacturer. It is, after all, much easier to pick two points off a plot than to derive them from tests If anybody out there has manufacturer's pressure drop and/or heat transfer data for a core or finished radiator that he could scan and send me, I would be most grateful. It doesn't matter what core - I just need to test my work so far against real hardware currently on the market. Regards to all, Marc de Piolenc Mass Flow http://www89.pair.com/techinfo/MassFlow/ductbook.htm Marc; I have two custom radiators and a custom oil cooler. I have some data that may be useful; from the maker and some I measured. Infortunately right now I can't locate the air side data I took on the two radiators - two spreadsheet files that seem to have disappeared; and I can find no manufacturers data on one of the rads. Radiator: Ron Davis Racing double pass, 2 rows of 1" tubes, 16 fins/in, core size 11.5 x 16 x 2.5 Conditions: coolant flow - 20 gpm inlet temp - 200F Air flow 2600 cfm inlet temp - 90F Manufacturers data : Coolant pressure drop - 2.25 psi Airside pressure drop - 0.175 psi Heat dissipation - 2898 Btu/min As I recall, my airflow test data showed air side PD slightly lower. Oil Cooler: Griffin Thermal Products Single pass, 1 row 3.35" wide extruded tubes with internal fins, 14 fins/in, core size 5.4 x 21.5 x 3.35 My measured air side data: fpm FPS IN. H2O CFM 598.4 9.97 0.26 400.93 915.2 15.25 0.50 613.18 1196.8 19.95 0.76 801.86 1328.8 22.15 0.88 890.30 1522.4 25.37 1.12 1020.01 1700 28.00 1.32 1125.60 1900 31.00 1.56 1246.20 2100 34.00 1.84 1366.80 2300 37.00 2.12 1487.40 2500 40.00 2.44 1608.00 The first five points are measured, the last five extrapolated using a regression analysis fit which matched the measured data very well. The manufacturers data that I have is for the same tube/fin configuration, for what they called a "similar" design, actual measured data. I don't know how useful it is because I don't know their actual core dimensions. Oil inlet - 220F, Oil flow - 18gpm, Delta P - 28 psi, oil outlet - 185F Air inlet - 100F, Air flow - 1575 cfm, Delta P - 1.48" Heat rejection - 2380 Btu/min The flow rates, temps, and heat dissipation is very close to my design point. I also did pressure tests on the cooler; cycled 5 times to 125 psi - no problems. The extruded tube is very interesting; thin ribs about every 5/16" that connect the tube wall, with 3 small intermediate fins. FWIW, Al ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3B00B.A840E560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

The only problem is, I don't know anybody in the = amateur-builder

community who is doing this, and I don't know whether the cores that = you

folks are using come with the necessary information already provided = by

the manufacturer. It is, after all, much easier to pick two points off = a

plot than to derive them from tests

 

If anybody out there has manufacturer's pressure drop and/or = heat

transfer data for a core or finished radiator that he could scan = and

send me, I would be most grateful. It doesn't matter what core - I = just

need to test my work so far against real hardware currently on = the

market.

 

Regards to all,

Marc de Piolenc

Mass Flow

http://www89.pair.com/techinfo/MassFlow/ductbo= ok.htm

 

Marc;

 <= /font>

I have two = custom radiators and a custom oil cooler.  I have some data that may be = useful; from the maker and some I measured.  Infortunately right now I = can’t locate the air side data I took on the two radiators – two = spreadsheet files that seem to have disappeared; and I can find no manufacturers = data on one of the rads.

 <= /font>

Radiator: Ron = Davis Racing  double pass, 2 rows of 1” tubes, 16 fins/in, core size 11.5 x 16 x = 2.5

Conditions: = coolant flow – 20 gpm   inlet temp – 200F

  &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;     Air flow 2600 cfm    inlet temp – 90F

Manufacturers = data : Coolant pressure drop – 2.25 psi

  &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;       Airside pressure drop – 0.175 psi

  &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;       Heat dissipation – 2898 Btu/min

As I recall, = my airflow test data showed air side PD slightly lower.

 <= /font>

Oil = Cooler:  Griffin Thermal Products  Single pass, 1 row 3.35” wide extruded tubes with = internal fins, 14 fins/in, core size 5.4 x 21.5 x 3.35

My measured = air side data:

  &n= bsp;      

fpm

FPS

IN. H2O

CFM

598.4

9.97

0.26

400.93

915.2

15.25

0.50

613.18

1196.8

19.95

0.76

801.86

1328.8

22.15

0.88

890.30

1522.4

25.37

1.12

1020.01

1700

28.00

1.32

1125.60

1900

31.00

1.56

1246.20

2100

34.00

1.84

1366.80

2300

37.00

2.12

1487.40

2500

40.00

2.44

1608.00

 <= /font>

The first = five points are measured, the last five extrapolated using a regression analysis fit = which matched the measured data very well.

 <= /font>

The = manufacturers data that I have is for the same tube/fin configuration, for what they called = a “similar” design, actual measured data. I don’t know how useful it is = because I don’t know their actual core dimensions.

 <= /font>

Oil inlet = – 220F, Oil flow – 18gpm, Delta P – 28 psi, oil outlet – = 185F

Air inlet = – 100F, Air flow – 1575 cfm, Delta P – 1.48”

Heat = rejection – 2380 Btu/min

 <= /font>

The flow = rates, temps, and heat dissipation is very close to my design point.

 <= /font>

I also did = pressure tests on the cooler; cycled 5 times to 125 psi – no = problems.  The extruded tube is very interesting; thin ribs about every 5/16” = that connect the tube wall, with 3 small intermediate fins.

 <= /font>

FWIW,

 <= /font>

Al

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