X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail.qnsi.net ([66.219.56.248] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.10) with ESMTP id 3325388 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 13:06:12 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.248; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C953DF.74410380" Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:05:54 -0600 Message-ID: <74120FDE88CAFE4DBDA8814BCE20A3F30A980C@qnsi-mail.qnsi.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot Thread-Index: AclT29g28ugr1FXXTWyVkQcPzJOk2QAAVi0g References: From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C953DF.74410380 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, =20 The temps are without cowling. Still working on my bottom cowl inlet / exit fairing but should be ready by Christmas. I have an oil / water exchanger plumbed between two 400 cu. in. radiators. Next weekend I will cover the radiators and attempt to get the oil temp higher. Oil is not getting hot enough to let the pressure drop below 100. Bruce T recommend an external oil thermostat but hopefully the temps and pressure will normalize once the cowl is installed or by blocking airflow.=20 =20 I will post pics after the lower cowl is completed. Everyone who drops by the hanger seems to think my radiator air inlets are facing the wrong direction. :) =20 Bobby =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:39 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot WOW! Bobby! Those are great numbers! Do you have any pictures of your cooling installation? Bill B=20 =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 8:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot Jeff, =20 What's your water temp during extended ground runs with your cowling off? With OAT <70F I have only been able to get my water to 177 and oil to 144 during extended ground runs up to 7500 rpm.=20 =20 Any pic you can share? =20 Bobby Renesis ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:03 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] : First Flight, short and hot I was in the right seat (flight engineer) when my homebuilt 2+2 made its first flight yesterday with the 13B Mazda engine, but not without problems. The coolant temperature reached 230F by circuit altitude; after throttle back and approach it had only dropped to about 225F; the oil temperature was indicating only 160F (this could be a mounting-point issue or real I'm not sure ... oil temp measure point is from a small manifold bolted to the PSRU mounting plate, with oil flowing from engine to PSRU) outside air temperature was about 32-33F. The coolant pressure pegged the gauge beyond 20 psi, which was a surprise as the pressure cap is rated for 20 psi ... I expected the engine to burp itself out and maintain 20 psi. =20 I tightened up the cowling around the radiator and removed the thermostat in an attempt to make a second flight but while removing the thermostat I noticed one of the alternator V-belts was broken ... got another belt only to find it didn't match the other ... these belts really need to be a matched-pair. Prior to flight, I noticed the outside belt (which broke) did not have the same tension as the inside belt; it must have climbed out of the pulley groove and got sliced by the pulley. Previously I bought a double alternator pulley from Racing Beat but never installed it, due to difficulty with removing the nut ... thought it best to leave well enough alone ... I will now put on that new pulley. =20 Hope to make another flight next weekend if the test pilot is in agreement. Any comments/experience on thermostat Vs no thermostat? Why would the pressure cap hold beyond its rating? Jeff Whaley C-FJWW =20 =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 3:10 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis fuel burn =20 If you haven't calibrated the EM2 fuel flow yet, the GPH reading does not mean anything. Don't make any decisions based on that reading. Calibrating the fuel flow is the most difficult and time consuming parts of EM2 setup. That's the down side of doing it with such an inexpensive flow sensor ($0.00) since it has none. The other option is to use a Floscan flow sensor with the EM2 but they are pricy. At 30" of manifold pressure and best power mixture setting and 6400 RPM you should get a fuel burn somewhere around 15 - 18 GPH. The exact amount will depend on other factors like exact mixture setting, your intake manifold, exhaust system, air temp, etc. Tracy Crook On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Rino wrote: Where can I get information on fuel burn and power for the renesis? The maximum fuel burn I can get on takeoff is 11.7 gph (reading on the EM2) at 64 00 rpm. The EM2 is not fully calibrated yet! I think I should be able to get a higher fuel burn than that. =20 The other part of the problem. What should be the intake manifold runner length on the Renesis. Best power has to be between 6000 and 6500 rpm limited by the propeller and redrive configuration. I cannot use more than 65" dia. prop. =20 The present runner length is 17" and I think it is not enough. =20 Rino Lacombe Renesis powered Glass Goose =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C953DF.74410380 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
 
The temps are without cowling. Still working = on my=20 bottom cowl inlet / exit fairing but should be ready by Christmas. I = have an oil=20 / water exchanger plumbed between two 400 cu. in. radiators. Next = weekend I=20 will cover the radiators and attempt to get the oil temp higher. Oil is = not=20 getting hot enough to let the pressure drop below 100. Bruce T = recommend an=20 external oil thermostat but hopefully the temps and pressure will = normalize once=20 the cowl is installed or by blocking airflow.
 
I will post pics after the lower cowl is = completed.=20 Everyone who drops by the hanger seems to think my radiator air inlets = are=20 facing the wrong direction. :)
 
Bobby
 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill=20 Bradburry
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 11:39 = AM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First = Flight,=20 short and hot

WOW! Bobby!

Those are great numbers!  Do you have any = pictures=20 of your cooling installation?

Bill = B 

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Bobby J. Hughes
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 = 8:02=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First = Flight,=20 short and hot

Jeff,

 

What's your = water temp=20 during extended ground runs with your cowling off?  With OAT  = <70F=20 I have only been able to get my water to 177 and oil to 144 during = extended=20 ground runs up to 7500 rpm.

 

Any pic you = can=20 share?

 

Bobby

Renesis

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Jeff Whaley
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 = 9:03=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] : First = Flight, short=20 and hot

I was in = the right=20 seat (flight engineer) when my homebuilt 2+2 made its first flight = yesterday=20 with the 13B Mazda engine, but not without problems. The coolant = temperature=20 reached 230F by circuit altitude; after throttle back and approach it = had only=20 dropped to about 225F; the oil temperature was indicating only 160F = (this could=20 be a mounting-point issue or real I’m not sure … oil temp = measure point is from=20 a small manifold bolted to the PSRU mounting plate, with oil flowing = from engine=20 to PSRU) outside air temperature was about 32-33F. The coolant pressure = pegged=20 the gauge beyond 20 psi, which was a surprise as the pressure cap is = rated for=20 20 psi … I expected the engine to burp itself out and maintain 20=20 psi.

 

I = tightened up the=20 cowling around the radiator and removed the thermostat in an attempt to = make a=20 second flight but while removing the thermostat I noticed one of the = alternator=20 V-belts was broken … got another belt only to find it didn’t = match the other …=20 these belts really need to be a matched-pair. Prior to flight, I noticed = the=20 outside belt (which broke) did not have the same tension as the inside = belt; it=20 must have climbed out of the pulley groove and got sliced by the pulley. = Previously I bought a double alternator pulley from Racing Beat but = never=20 installed it, due to difficulty with removing the nut … thought it = best to leave=20 well enough alone … I will now put on that new=20 pulley.

 

Hope to = make=20 another flight next weekend if the test pilot is in=20 agreement.

Any=20 comments/experience on thermostat Vs no = thermostat?

Why = would the=20 pressure cap hold beyond its rating?

Jeff=20 Whaley

C-FJWW

 

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 = 3:10=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis = fuel=20 burn

 

If you haven't calibrated the = EM2 fuel flow=20 yet, the GPH reading does not mean anything.  Don't make any = decisions=20 based on that reading.   Calibrating the fuel flow is the most = difficult and time consuming parts of EM2 setup.   That's the = down=20 side of doing it with such an inexpensive flow sensor ($0.00) since it = has=20 none.   The other option is to use a Floscan flow sensor with = the=20 EM2  but they are pricy.

  At 30" of manifold pressure = and best=20 power mixture setting and 6400 RPM you should get a fuel burn somewhere = around=20 15 - 18 GPH.  The exact amount will depend on other factors like = exact=20 mixture setting, your intake manifold, exhaust system, air temp,=20 etc.

Tracy Crook

On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Rino <lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca>=20 wrote:

Where can I get = information on fuel=20 burn and power for the renesis?

The maximum fuel burn I = can get on=20 takeoff is 11.7 gph (reading on the EM2) at 64 00 rpm.   The = EM2 is=20 not fully calibrated yet!   I think I should be able to get a = higher=20 fuel burn than that.

 

The other part of the = problem. =20 What should be the intake manifold runner length on the Renesis.  = Best=20 power has to be between 6000 and 6500 rpm limited by the = propeller and=20 redrive configuration.   I cannot use more than 65" dia.=20 prop.

 

The present runner length = is 17" and=20 I think it is not enough.

 

Rino=20 Lacombe

Renesis = powered=20 Glass Goose

 

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