X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from EXHUB003-4.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.111] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.10) with ESMTPS id 3325389 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:54:29 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.5.74.111; envelope-from=jwhaley@datacast.com Received: from EXVMBX003-5.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.45]) by EXHUB003-4.exch003intermedia.net ([207.5.74.111]) with mapi; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:53:52 -0800 From: Jeff Whaley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:53:52 -0800 Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot Thread-Index: AclT3PRTSjaBdQQlQ1iCaORyl/AfWQAACh0g Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0ED132CD4CD7EXVMBX0035exc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0ED132CD4CD7EXVMBX0035exc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, the radiator surface is a bit wider than the oil cooler, higher and t= hicker. Approximate dimensions are 19"x5"x5" or 475 ci. Jeff From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot Jeff, with the stock oil cooler and dual air inlets, you should cool your o= il no problem. What is the size of your radiator, (cubic inches)? It seems smaller than the oil cooler and has the exhaust close to it which = will hurt it some. Your cooling numbers on the next flight will certainly = be better, but you may still have higher water temps? Hope not! Bill B ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:26 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot Bill, here are best photos I have of cooling system/ducting. Jeff From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:28 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot Jeff, Congratulations on your first flight! Do you have any pictures of yo= ur cooling installation? Bill B ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 10:03 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] : First Flight, short and hot I was in the right seat (flight engineer) when my homebuilt 2+2 made its fi= rst flight yesterday with the 13B Mazda engine, but not without problems. T= he coolant temperature reached 230F by circuit altitude; after throttle bac= k and approach it had only dropped to about 225F; the oil temperature was i= ndicating only 160F (this could be a mounting-point issue or real I'm not s= ure ... oil temp measure point is from a small manifold bolted to the PSRU = mounting plate, with oil flowing from engine to PSRU) outside air temperatu= re was about 32-33F. The coolant pressure pegged the gauge beyond 20 psi, w= hich was a surprise as the pressure cap is rated for 20 psi ... I expected = the engine to burp itself out and maintain 20 psi. I tightened up the cowling around the radiator and removed the thermostat i= n an attempt to make a second flight but while removing the thermostat I no= ticed one of the alternator V-belts was broken ... got another belt only to= find it didn't match the other ... these belts really need to be a matched= -pair. Prior to flight, I noticed the outside belt (which broke) did not ha= ve the same tension as the inside belt; it must have climbed out of the pul= ley groove and got sliced by the pulley. Previously I bought a double alter= nator pulley from Racing Beat but never installed it, due to difficulty wit= h removing the nut ... thought it best to leave well enough alone ... I wil= l now put on that new pulley. Hope to make another flight next weekend if the test pilot is in agreement. Any comments/experience on thermostat Vs no thermostat? Why would the pressure cap hold beyond its rating? Jeff Whaley C-FJWW From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 3:10 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis fuel burn If you haven't calibrated the EM2 fuel flow yet, the GPH reading does not m= ean anything. Don't make any decisions based on that reading. Calibratin= g the fuel flow is the most difficult and time consuming parts of EM2 setup= . That's the down side of doing it with such an inexpensive flow sensor (= $0.00) since it has none. The other option is to use a Floscan flow senso= r with the EM2 but they are pricy. At 30" of manifold pressure and best power mixture setting and 6400 RPM y= ou should get a fuel burn somewhere around 15 - 18 GPH. The exact amount w= ill depend on other factors like exact mixture setting, your intake manifol= d, exhaust system, air temp, etc. Tracy Crook On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Rino > wrote: Where can I get information on fuel burn and power for the Renesis? The maximum fuel burn I can get on takeoff is 11.7 gph (reading on the EM2)= at 64 00 rpm. The EM2 is not fully calibrated yet! I think I should be= able to get a higher fuel burn than that. The other part of the problem. What should be the intake manifold runner l= ength on the Renesis. Best power has to be between 6000 and 6500 rpm limit= ed by the propeller and redrive configuration. I cannot use more than 65"= dia. prop. The present runner length is 17" and I think it is not enough. Rino Lacombe Renesis powered Glass Goose --_000_C03ABB0A7362B84BB53D544B3C305E0ED132CD4CD7EXVMBX0035exc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Bill, the radiator surface is a bit wider than the oil coole= r, higher and thicker. Approximate dimensions are 19”x5”x5” = or 475 ci.

Jeff

 

From: Rotary motors= in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:44 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot

 

Jeff, with the stock oil cooler and dual air inlets, y= ou should cool your oil no problem.  What is the size of your radiator, (cubic inches)?

It seems smaller than the oil cooler and has the exhau= st close to it which will hurt it some.  Your cooling numbers on the next flight will certainly be better, but you may still have higher water temps?  Hope not! 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:26 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot

Bill, here are best photos I have of cooling system/ducting.=

Jeff

 

From: Rotary motors= in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:28 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot

 

Jeff, Congratulations on your first flight!  Do y= ou have any pictures of your cooling installation? 

 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 10:03 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] : First Flight, short and hot=

I was in the right seat (flight engineer) when my homebuilt = 2+2 made its first flight yesterday with the 13B Mazda engine, but not without problems. The coolant temperature reached 230F by circuit altitude; after throttle back and approach it had only dropped to about 225F; the oil temperature was indicating only 160F (this could be a mounting-point issue = or real I’m not sure … oil temp measure point is from a small mani= fold bolted to the PSRU mounting plate, with oil flowing from engine to PSRU) outside air temperature was about 32-33F. The coolant pressure pegged the g= auge beyond 20 psi, which was a surprise as the pressure cap is rated for 20 psi … I expected the engine to burp itself out and maintain 20 psi.<= /o:p>

 

I tightened up the cowling around the radiator and removed t= he thermostat in an attempt to make a second flight but while removing the thermostat I noticed one of the alternator V-belts was broken … got another belt only to find it didn’t match the other … these bel= ts really need to be a matched-pair. Prior to flight, I noticed the outside be= lt (which broke) did not have the same tension as the inside belt; it must hav= e climbed out of the pulley groove and got sliced by the pulley. Previously I bought a double alternator pulley from Racing Beat but never installed it, = due to difficulty with removing the nut … thought it best to leave well enough alone … I will now put on that new pulley.

 

Hope to make another flight next weekend if the test pilot i= s in agreement.

Any comments/experience on thermostat Vs no thermostat?=

Why would the pressure cap hold beyond its rating?

Jeff Whaley

C-FJWW

 

 

From: Rotary motors= in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Cro= ok
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 3:10 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis fuel burn

 

If you haven't calibrat= ed the EM2 fuel flow yet, the GPH reading does not mean anything.  Don't make= any decisions based on that reading.   Calibrating the fuel flow is t= he most difficult and time consuming parts of EM2 setup.   That's th= e down side of doing it with such an inexpensive flow sensor ($0.00) since it= has none.   The other option is to use a Floscan flow sensor with the EM2  but they are pricy.

  At 30" of manifold pressure and best power mixture setting and = 6400 RPM you should get a fuel burn somewhere around 15 - 18 GPH.  The exac= t amount will depend on other factors like exact mixture setting, your intake manifold, exhaust system, air temp, etc.

Tracy Crook

On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Rino <lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:=

Where= can I get information on fuel burn and power for the Renesis?

The m= aximum fuel burn I can get on takeoff is 11.7 gph (reading on the EM2) at 64 00 rpm.   The EM2 is not fully calibrated yet!   I think I should be able to get a higher fuel burn than that.

 

The o= ther part of the problem.  What should be the intake manifold runner length= on the Renesis.  Best power has to be between 6000 and 6500 rpm limited by the propeller and redrive configuration.   I cannot us= e more than 65" dia. prop.

 

The p= resent runner length is 17" and I think it is not enough.

 

Rino Lacombe

Renesis powered Glass Goose<= /p>

 

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