X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost05.isp.att.net ([204.127.217.105] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.10) with ESMTP id 3325373 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:45:02 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.127.217.105; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-152-230-195.mco.bellsouth.net[70.152.230.195]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc05) with SMTP id <20081201174425H0500f0mpne>; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 17:44:25 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [70.152.230.195] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:44:26 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01C953B2.8BAA55D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AclTyUDzjJvblEhETceRcqK4GHq22gAEpJ8Q X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C953B2.8BAA55D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff, with the stock oil cooler and dual air inlets, you should cool your oil no problem. What is the size of your radiator, (cubic inches)? It seems smaller than the oil cooler and has the exhaust close to it which will hurt it some. Your cooling numbers on the next flight will certainly be better, but you may still have higher water temps? Hope not! Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:26 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot Bill, here are best photos I have of cooling system/ducting. Jeff From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:28 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : First Flight, short and hot Jeff, Congratulations on your first flight! Do you have any pictures of your cooling installation? Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 10:03 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] : First Flight, short and hot I was in the right seat (flight engineer) when my homebuilt 2+2 made its first flight yesterday with the 13B Mazda engine, but not without problems. The coolant temperature reached 230F by circuit altitude; after throttle back and approach it had only dropped to about 225F; the oil temperature was indicating only 160F (this could be a mounting-point issue or real I'm not sure . oil temp measure point is from a small manifold bolted to the PSRU mounting plate, with oil flowing from engine to PSRU) outside air temperature was about 32-33F. The coolant pressure pegged the gauge beyond 20 psi, which was a surprise as the pressure cap is rated for 20 psi . I expected the engine to burp itself out and maintain 20 psi. I tightened up the cowling around the radiator and removed the thermostat in an attempt to make a second flight but while removing the thermostat I noticed one of the alternator V-belts was broken . got another belt only to find it didn't match the other . these belts really need to be a matched-pair. Prior to flight, I noticed the outside belt (which broke) did not have the same tension as the inside belt; it must have climbed out of the pulley groove and got sliced by the pulley. Previously I bought a double alternator pulley from Racing Beat but never installed it, due to difficulty with removing the nut . thought it best to leave well enough alone . I will now put on that new pulley. Hope to make another flight next weekend if the test pilot is in agreement. Any comments/experience on thermostat Vs no thermostat? Why would the pressure cap hold beyond its rating? Jeff Whaley C-FJWW From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 3:10 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis fuel burn If you haven't calibrated the EM2 fuel flow yet, the GPH reading does not mean anything. Don't make any decisions based on that reading. Calibrating the fuel flow is the most difficult and time consuming parts of EM2 setup. That's the down side of doing it with such an inexpensive flow sensor ($0.00) since it has none. The other option is to use a Floscan flow sensor with the EM2 but they are pricy. At 30" of manifold pressure and best power mixture setting and 6400 RPM you should get a fuel burn somewhere around 15 - 18 GPH. The exact amount will depend on other factors like exact mixture setting, your intake manifold, exhaust system, air temp, etc. Tracy Crook On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Rino wrote: Where can I get information on fuel burn and power for the Renesis? The maximum fuel burn I can get on takeoff is 11.7 gph (reading on the EM2) at 64 00 rpm. The EM2 is not fully calibrated yet! I think I should be able to get a higher fuel burn than that. The other part of the problem. What should be the intake manifold runner length on the Renesis. Best power has to be between 6000 and 6500 rpm limited by the propeller and redrive configuration. I cannot use more than 65" dia. prop. The present runner length is 17" and I think it is not enough. Rino Lacombe Renesis powered Glass Goose ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01C953B2.8BAA55D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jeff, with the stock oil cooler and dual air inlets, you should = cool your oil no problem.  What is the size of your radiator, (cubic = inches)?

It seems smaller than the oil cooler and has the exhaust close = to it which will hurt it some.  Your cooling numbers on the next flight = will certainly be better, but you may still have higher water temps?  = Hope not! 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley
Sent: Monday, December = 01, 2008 10:26 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = : First Flight, short and hot

Bill, here = are best photos I have of cooling system/ducting.

Jeff

 <= /o:p>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, November = 30, 2008 11:28 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = : First Flight, short and hot

 

Jeff, Congratulations on your first flight!  Do you have = any pictures of your cooling installation?  =

 

Bill B 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley
Sent: Sunday, November = 30, 2008 10:03 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] : = First Flight, short and hot

I was in = the right seat (flight engineer) when my homebuilt 2+2 made its first flight = yesterday with the 13B Mazda engine, but not without problems. The coolant = temperature reached 230F by circuit altitude; after throttle back and approach it = had only dropped to about 225F; the oil temperature was indicating only 160F = (this could be a mounting-point issue or real I’m not sure … oil temp = measure point is from a small manifold bolted to the PSRU mounting plate, with = oil flowing from engine to PSRU) outside air temperature was about 32-33F. = The coolant pressure pegged the gauge beyond 20 psi, which was a surprise as = the pressure cap is rated for 20 psi … I expected the engine to burp = itself out and maintain 20 psi.

 <= /o:p>

I tightened = up the cowling around the radiator and removed the thermostat in an attempt to = make a second flight but while removing the thermostat I noticed one of the = alternator V-belts was broken … got another belt only to find it didn’t = match the other … these belts really need to be a matched-pair. Prior to flight, I noticed the outside belt (which broke) did not have the same = tension as the inside belt; it must have climbed out of the pulley groove and = got sliced by the pulley. Previously I bought a double alternator pulley = from Racing Beat but never installed it, due to difficulty with removing the = nut … thought it best to leave well enough alone … I will now = put on that new pulley.

 <= /o:p>

Hope to = make another flight next weekend if the test pilot is in = agreement.

Any comments/experience on thermostat Vs no = thermostat?

Why would = the pressure cap hold beyond its rating?

Jeff = Whaley

C-FJWW<= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

 <= /o:p>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Saturday, November = 29, 2008 3:10 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Renesis fuel burn

 

If you haven't = calibrated the EM2 fuel flow yet, the GPH reading does not mean anything.  = Don't make any decisions based on that reading.   Calibrating the fuel = flow is the most difficult and time consuming parts of EM2 setup.   = That's the down side of doing it with such an inexpensive flow sensor ($0.00) = since it has none.   The other option is to use a Floscan flow sensor = with the EM2  but they are pricy.

  At 30" of manifold pressure and best power mixture setting = and 6400 RPM you should get a fuel burn somewhere around 15 - 18 GPH.  The = exact amount will depend on other factors like exact mixture setting, your = intake manifold, exhaust system, air temp, etc.

Tracy Crook

On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:32 PM, Rino <lacombr@nbnet.nb.ca> = wrote:

Where can I get information on fuel burn and power = for the Renesis?

The maximum fuel burn I can get on takeoff is 11.7 = gph (reading on the EM2) at 64 00 rpm.   The EM2 is not fully = calibrated yet!   I think I should be able to get a higher fuel burn than = that.

 

The other part of the problem.  What should be = the intake manifold runner length on the Renesis.  Best power has = to be between 6000 and 6500 rpm limited by the propeller and redrive configuration.   I cannot use more than 65" dia. = prop.

 

The present runner length is 17" and I think it = is not enough.

 

Rino = Lacombe

Renesis = powered Glass Goose

 

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