X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mxo4.broadbandsupport.net ([209.55.3.84] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.10) with ESMTP id 3287670 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:16:26 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.55.3.84; envelope-from=davidm@remconinc.com Return-Path: Received: from [24.206.182.54] ([24.206.182.54:1323] helo=dave) by mxo4.broadbandsupport.net (ecelerity 2.1.1.23 r(18304)) with ESMTP id CE/1F-04905-36B2B194 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2008 14:15:48 -0500 Reply-To: From: "David Moyer" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] IVO Props, etc. Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:14:50 -0500 Organization: Remcon Associates, LLC Message-ID: <002001c944f2$8da00a20$6b01a8c0@dave> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C944C8.A4CA0220" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6838 Importance: Normal Thread-Index: AclE91kljiUmhN5BR/uen85UwfyuqgABNVuQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1933 In-Reply-To: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C944C8.A4CA0220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 76 inch, 3 blade Magnum =20 David Moyer=20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:49 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] IVO Props, etc. Doug, Did Ross state his "IVO" diameter and if 2 or 3 blades = !!...............=20 -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 =20 -------------- Original message from DLOMHEIM@aol.com: --------------=20 Ross Farnham, who posts in the Van's Airforce "alternative engine" forum (and who if he wasn't a Subie guy would most likely be a regular on this list); has done quite a bit of testing with the IVO Magnum "high pitch" version on his RV-6A, turbo Subie. The best "top speed" (for what = that's worth in this day and age) I could find in his data was at a DA of = 17,000 ft. and " 34 inches 5000 rpm, mixture -10%, 181 knots TAS". That really isn't too bad for the price you pay for an IVO in my opinion. See this = link for his IVO testing information: http://www.sdsefi.com/rv13.htm =20 His web pages also fully document the many cooling modifications he went through with his installation until it finally was "right", much like = those who have gone before on this list have had to do. This also is well documented and makes for interesting reading if you haven't checked out = his site before. http://www.sdsefi.com/rv12.htm =20 I plan on using an IVO on my RV-9A installation since it appears from = Ross's data that it should provide more than adequate climb performance and = will also cruise well in the 150-160 mph range (where I plan on spending most = of my time). An MT would be nice, but the cost is prohibitive on my = budget. Here is a summary of Ross's IVO conclusions from his web page: =20 07/21/04 At the 90 hour engine/prop time mark we have some more observations on = the IVO Magnum: 1. We have had no issues with bolts or blades coming loose. 2. The in-flight adjustment works well. We use a 0-20 amp ammeter to = judge blade position. 3. After the first set of brushes laid down carbon on the slip rings, = brush life now exceeds 30 hours between changes 4. Despite having too low a reduction ratio for our airframe, the Magnum offers good takeoff and climb performance. Medium speed cruise = performance is comparable to other certified aircraft propellers. High speed = performance also seems comparable although we'd like to have a lower reduction ratio = to turn the prop faster and absorb more hp. 5. Given the speed vs. fuel flow considerations on our turbocharged = RV6A, this prop is matched well and is a viable alternative to expensive = constant speed, certified propellers. A fixed pitch prop on the turbocharged = engine would degrade performance considerably, especially in the takeoff, climb = and high altitude cruise regimes. 6. A slight vibration is set up if the propeller is coarsed out too much = for the flight speed, likely due to the blade being partially stalled. 7. Ambient temperature and altitude (density altitude) affect pitch = angles required for a given hp and rpm. For takeoff using 38 inches MAP, 4800 engine rpm/ 2182 prop rpm we set = pitch at 3 amps fine of neutral pitch. This is at a hp of around 170, prop = torque is 409 ft./lbs. Density altitude 3500-4500 MSL. For climb at 35 inches MAP, 4500-4800 engine rpm/ 2045-2182 prop rpm we = set pitch at 2 amps fine to neutral. This is at an IAS of 80-95 knots. Hp is 150-155, torque at prop is about 374 ft./lbs. Density altitude around = 6000 MSL. For cruise at 30 inches MAP, 4200 engine rpm/ 1909 prop rpm we set pitch = at 13 amps coarse. This is at an IAS of 130 knots. HP is around 114, torque = at prop about 314 ft./lbs. Density altitude 11,000 MSL. We don't run the pitch past 15 amps coarse and figure that this results = in a pitch of 95 to 100 inches. (note: italics are mine...) =20 Doug Lomheim RV-9A; 13B/ FWF =20 _____ =20 Get = the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more! ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C944C8.A4CA0220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
76 inch, 3 blade Magnum
 
David Moyer

-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of=20 Kelly Troyer
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 1:49=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] IVO=20 Props, etc.

Doug,
   Did Ross state his "IVO" diameter and if 2 or 3 = blades=20 !!............... 
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke = Delta"_13B=20 ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold=20



 
--------------=20 Original message from DLOMHEIM@aol.com: --------------

Ross Farnham, who posts in the Van's Airforce "alternative = engine"=20 forum (and who if he wasn't a Subie guy would most likely be a = regular=20 on this list); has done quite a bit of testing with the IVO = Magnum=20 "high pitch" version on his RV-6A, turbo Subie.  The best = "top=20 speed" (for what that's worth in this day and age) I could find in = his data=20 was at a DA of 17,000 ft. and " 34 inches 5000 rpm, = mixture -10%,=20 181 knots TAS".  That really isn't too bad for the price = you pay=20 for an IVO in my opinion.  See this link for his IVO = testing=20 information:  http://www.sdsefi.com/rv13.htm
 
His web pages also fully document the many cooling=20 modifications he went through with his installation=20 until it finally was "right", much like those who have = gone before=20 on this list have had to do.  This also is well = documented=20 and makes for interesting reading if you haven't checked out his = site=20 before.   http://www.sdsefi.com/rv12.htm
 
I plan on using an IVO on my RV-9A installation since it = appears from=20 Ross's data that it should provide more than adequate climb = performance and=20 will also cruise well in the 150-160 mph range (where I plan on = spending=20 most of my time).  An MT would be nice, but the cost is=20 prohibitive on my budget.  Here is a summary of Ross's IVO = conclusions from his web page:
 
07/21/04

At the 90 hour engine/prop time mark we have some more = observations on=20 the IVO Magnum:

1. We have had no issues with bolts or blades coming loose.

2. The in-flight adjustment works well. We use a 0-20 amp ammeter = to=20 judge blade position.

3. After the first set of brushes laid down carbon on the slip = rings,=20 brush life now exceeds 30 hours between changes

4. Despite having too low a reduction ratio for our = airframe,=20 the Magnum offers good takeoff and climb performance. = Medium=20 speed cruise performance is comparable to other certified aircraft=20 propellers. High speed performance also seems = comparable=20 although we'd like to have a lower reduction ratio to turn the prop = faster=20 and absorb more hp.

5. Given the speed vs. fuel flow considerations on our = turbocharged RV6A,=20 this prop is matched well and is a viable alternative to expensive = constant=20 speed, certified propellers. A fixed pitch prop on the turbocharged = engine=20 would degrade performance considerably, especially in the takeoff, = climb and=20 high altitude cruise regimes.

6. A slight vibration is set up if the propeller is coarsed out = too much=20 for the flight speed, likely due to the blade being partially = stalled.

7. Ambient temperature and altitude (density altitude) affect = pitch=20 angles required for a given hp and rpm.

For takeoff using 38 inches MAP, 4800 engine rpm/ 2182 prop rpm = we set=20 pitch at 3 amps fine of neutral pitch. This is at a hp of around = 170, prop=20 torque is 409 ft./lbs. Density altitude 3500-4500 MSL.

For climb at 35 inches MAP, 4500-4800 engine rpm/ 2045-2182 prop = rpm we=20 set pitch at 2 amps fine to neutral. This is at an IAS of 80-95 = knots. Hp is=20 150-155, torque at prop is about 374 ft./lbs. Density altitude = around 6000=20 MSL.

For cruise at 30 inches MAP, 4200 engine rpm/ 1909 prop rpm we = set pitch=20 at 13 amps coarse. This is at an IAS of 130 knots. HP is around 114, = torque=20 at prop about 314 ft./lbs. Density altitude 11,000 MSL.

We don't run the pitch past 15 amps coarse and figure that this = results=20 in a pitch of 95 to 100 inches.

(note:  italics are mine...)

 

Doug Lomheim

RV-9A; 13B/ FWF

 




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