X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.12.137.3] (HELO imo-m22.mail.aol.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.9) with ESMTP id 3249461 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 16:40:19 -0400 Received: from BMears9413@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v39.1.) id q.d6a.39f224eb (37050) for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2008 16:40:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from FWM-M01 (fwm-m01.webmail.aol.com [64.12.168.65]) by cia-db03.mx.aol.com (v121_r4.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB038-90ba490cbe911d7; Sat, 01 Nov 2008 16:39:45 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Alcoholic Rotary Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 16:40:14 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 65.182.71.8 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bmears9413@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CB0A792D3CC3FC_E44_155A_FWM-M01.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 39598-STANDARD Received: from 65.182.71.8 by FWM-M01.sysops.aol.com (64.12.168.65) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 01 Nov 2008 16:40:14 -0400 Message-Id: <8CB0A792CFEC670-E44-A49@FWM-M01.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO ----------MB_8CB0A792D3CC3FC_E44_155A_FWM-M01.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Actually there is an additive you can add to the alcohol to prevent the corrosion. We run it in our dragster. We also added it to our go karts back in the day. For the life of me I cannot recall the name of the stuff.....codjerism......You can also run simple caster oil (2%) and do the same thing. Some other disadvantages are the fact that it burns clear. Not that there's a lot of places to go in an airplane if there's a fire, but at least you can see it. Possible in time to do something about it. With alcohol you wont see anything untill its too late. -----Original Message----- From: Al Wick To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 2:40 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alcoholic Rotary If you operate with more than 10% ethanol, then you add a few new risks.? 1) Alcohol has a strong attraction to water. So you have to be very thorough in checking for water prior to flight. More likely to have way more water than you ever had with gasoline.? ? 2) With more than 10% alcohol, that water is very corrosive. Particularly to aluminum. So no aluminum should be used for plumbing. (Note: only true when using more than 10% alcohol).? ? 3) Alcohol boils at lower pressure. So if you have the typical marginal fuel system, then you are way more likely to have vapor lock. Particularly on warm day with plane sitting on tarmac. Also affected by altitude. So strongly encourage using wet fuel pumps instead of external pump.? ? 4) You'll have to squirt a little more fuel per gulp of air to compensate for less energy per gallon. No biggie.? ? I flew 5 years with 10% ethanol. No problems. I crew a 1000 hp drag boat that uses methanol. We have to purge fuel from all fuel lines, tank, and spray wd40 inside them after each race. Else we get severe corrosion. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.? ? -Al Wick? Cozy IV powered by Turbo Subaru 3.0R with variable valve lift and cam timing.? Artificial intelligence in cockpit, N9032U 240+ hours from Portland, Oregon? Glass panel design, Subaru install, Prop construct, Risk assessment info:? http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Perkinson" ? ? This subject probably has been hashed around on this list before, but I will ask it again. What might be the estimated power output of the 13B be burning only Ethanol, and what other alteration would need to be preformed other than what are already preformed?? I know the concerns about the effects of Ethanol on hoses and other flexible ancillaries.? The reason that I am even thinking of running the engine on ethanol is there might be some federal money out there for R&D passed out through one of the local Universities.? Just thinking about my piece of the pie. :>)? ? Bob Perkinson? RV-9 N68RP Reserved? ? ? --? Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/? Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html? ----------MB_8CB0A792D3CC3FC_E44_155A_FWM-M01.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Actually there is an additive you can add to the alcohol to prevent the corrosion. We run it in our dragster. We also added it to our go karts back in the day. For the life of me I cannot recall the name of the stuff.....codjerism......You can also run simple caster oil (2%) and do the same thing. Some other disadvantages are the fact that it burns clear. Not that there's a lot of places to go in an airplane if there's a fire, but at least you can see it. Possible in time to do something about it. With alcohol you wont see anything untill its too late.


-----Original Message-----
From: Al Wick <alwick@juno.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 2:40 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Alcoholic Rotary

If you operate with more than 10% ethanol, then you add a few new risks. 
1) Alcohol has a strong attraction to water. So you have to be very thorough in checking for water prior to flight. More likely to have way more water than you ever had with gasoline. 
 
2) With more than 10% alcohol, that water is very corrosive. Particularly to aluminum. So no aluminum should be used for plumbing. (Note: only true when using more than 10% alcohol). 
 
3) Alcohol boils at lower pressure. So if you have the typical marginal fuel system, then you are way more likely to have vapor lock. Particularly on warm day with plane sitting on tarmac. Also affected by altitude. So strongly encourage using wet fuel pumps instead of external pump. 
 
4) You'll have to squirt a little more fuel per gulp of air to compensate for less energy per gallon. No biggie. 
 
I flew 5 years with 10% ethanol. No problems. I crew a 1000 hp drag boat that uses methanol. We have to purge fuel from all fuel lines, tank, and spray wd40 inside them after each race. Else we get severe corrosion. Good luck. Let us know how it goes. 
 
-Al Wick 
Cozy IV powered by Turbo Subaru 3.0R with variable valve lift and cam timing. 
Artificial intelligence in cockpit, N9032U 240+ hours from Portland, Oregon 
Glass panel design, Subaru install, Prop construct, Risk assessment info: 
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html 
 
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk90658@bellsouth.net> 
 
This subject probably has been hashed around on this list before, but I will ask it again. What might be the estimated power output of the 13B be burning only Ethanol, and what other alteration would need to be preformed other than what are already preformed? 
I know the concerns about the effects of Ethanol on hoses and other flexible ancillaries. 
The reason that I am even thinking of running the engine on ethanol is there might be some federal money out there for R&D passed out through one of the local Universities. 
Just thinking about my piece of the pie. :>) 
 
Bob Perkinson 
RV-9 N68RP Reserved 
 
 
-- 
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ 
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html 
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