X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rv-out-0506.google.com ([209.85.198.225] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.9) with ESMTP id 3236022 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:01:02 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.198.225; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by rv-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id f6so420457rvb.7 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:00:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender :to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references :x-google-sender-auth; bh=6J/q6o5sui/X+4VLBOzYrcu02PlB1h43+8Sn/P9P9Hw=; b=CcDH65pNoHYudV0rSM9w6imz/af2JNuXtKsyPc3gjdO50L/wo/+wu8l1wAyKhXYQrx mGQloxEmVVA+mtwM97zC7z3wltkmiUwRbz/AyNYZBgB/QO65oxtL8eHLvM9Ce8w1TQcN N0kGvuKkmjI7tKDRzoWCRsPknh6yxqVvEvTMU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=omDq+kBdHSHeJCaM2lTOFNdREsdMfUKMGuTgrZxaxxFXG0DT4ne6U8uOocC56KFywf agrNHI+ToQ5e1CyfbdxWuJTjgicrOqh2m0Jp9o5Tbcw4uIPWW0DhAg3bIg4/baeOMhsd M7Ux07FSbrJSGZLnEoMiZCDHx/aOSscRW7H44= Received: by 10.141.13.16 with SMTP id q16mr498147rvi.99.1224777623975; Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.41.18 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0810230900r167588b3ne10348e7073db16a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:00:23 -0400 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: N613BX update In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_28861_11641110.1224777623971" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3ef14ee165f6bf1b ------=_Part_28861_11641110.1224777623971 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Great report Steve. Here are some more comments about the MAP sensors for those who are comfortable checking their own electronics hardware. Steve's advice about output filters on MAP sensors is good. I had noticed some instability on some (but not all) Motorola pressure sensors so I have added a small capacitor (.1 uF) to their outputs on later versions of the EC2 and on the EC3. I also add these on all updates if the unit does not already have them. There is also another factor that affects this. The first two versions of the EC2 board were layed out by an outside source. The ground path for the map sensor was so long and convoluted that it aggravated the tendency for instability on the sensor, especially on controller A. This was also the cause of mixture going crazy on controller A when transmitting on the radio in some installations. Adding a short ground jumper from A controller MAP sensor ground to the ground plane on th= e board fixed this problem. This jumper is also added whenever I do updates. I was wondering if Steve had ever tried switching to B and seeing if it had the same staging glitch. If the problem was on A only, it may have been du= e to the ground problem. Let me know if you tried that Steve. I'd recommend adding the jumper in any case. This same type of ground layout problem caused the radio receiver noise (a hiss heard in the aircraft radio) on the single part EM2. All affected EM2 customers were notified to have them updated and I think all of them have been at this point. This was the reason I quite having my PCB board layouts done by outside sources. Just what I needed, another job :>) Very surprised by your airspeed numbers Steve. They are significantly lower than I would expect. Your plane looks pretty clean except for the cooling outlet. Purely speculation but I'm guessing that cooling drag is still slowing you down. Both my -4 and -8 have only 50 sq in of cooling outlet which means even after you reduced it by half you still have about 60% more outlet area than I do. Cooling problems can sometimes be helped by enlarging the outlet but this is always a high drag solution. I can't remember what kind of inlet ducting you have but that is always the area where cooling improvements and drag reduction have been found on my plane. BTW, did you notice much change in top or cruise speed before vs after the outlet change? Until you get to the critical point in reduction there is usually very little change. Thanks for the report. Tracy > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "sboese" > > To anyone interested: > > > > The following is a response to Doug's recent request for updates on flyin= g > rotaries: > > > > In early June, having recovered sufficient courage to try another cross > country trip after feeding my prop to my tow bar (yes Ed, I still have th= e > tow bar) in Minnesota, we finally set out on another one in our 13B power= ed > RV-6A, this time to the west. After squeezing between the top of the > controlled airspace and a cloud layer over Great Salt Lake, negotiating a > narrow corridor which happened to be populated with scattered rain showe= rs > between restricted airspaces, and a fuel stop in Wendover, UT, we crossed > Mono Lake, the Sierra Mountains, and Yosemite Park at 14500 ft with 50 kn= ot > headwinds. Thumbing my nose at the concept of shock cooling, we descende= d > over 11,000 ft in 25 miles and landed at our destination of > Mariposa-Yosemite airport. Other than a little initial roughness on > bringing the power back up in the pattern after that descent, probably du= e > to some lead fowling of the plugs since 100 LL was the only suitable fuel > available at Wendover, the engine installation behaved flawlessly. This = is > in contrast to the performance of the pilot with the different sight pict= ure > at the slower ground speeds at lower density altitude than I ever see at > home in Laramie, WY, and the inclined runway surrounded by hills at MPI. > Thankfully, those details are not rotary related however, and need not be > expanded upon further. > > > > The friends we stayed with near Mariposa built an award-winning RV-6 with > an O-360 and CS prop. While we were there, we took a couple of side trip= s > with the planes which gave the opportunity for some side by side > comparisons. Their take off and climb performance was much more impressi= ve > than ours which was not surprising since our Performance Propellers fixed > pitch prop is set up primarily for cruise rather than climb. On one trip= , > after flying a mile out over the Pacific at Monterrey Bay (just to say we > did it) I set up the plane at max power and made the flight back to MPI > under these conditions. Altitude was 5500 ft, fuel burn was 14.8-15 gal/= hr, > MAP was 23.8", RPM was 5900, and IAS was 148 knots. I don't know what th= e > OAT was, but it wasn't out of the ordinary. Our friends reported burning > close to 9 gal/hr while flying a longside us during this time. I was > somewhat surprised by this and one thing in particular came to mind: > parasite drag. The attached picture was taken during this flight and two > sources of drag can be readily seen: the large and sharp angled cooling a= ir > outlet, and the "bomb" which is a muffler. > > > > The trip home was relatively uneventful and involved a detour over Mammot= h > Lakes, CA to allow more time to climb and a lower altitude for crossing t= he > Sierras. At the fuel stop at Wendover, I discovered a crack in one of th= e > braces between the rear of the engine and the exhaust header, but this > wasn't a particular cause for worry since I had flown for more than 40 hr= s > before even installing the two of those. Since we did not have headwinds= on > the return trip, the total flight time home was an hour less than the fli= ght > time out. The landing in Laramie was in conditions not uncommon to this > area, landing on runway 21 with the ASOS reporting winds from 250 degrees= at > 22 gusting to 30. Thankfully, I had completed a flight review using our > plane just a few days before starting the trip and crosswind technique wa= s > one of the things developed. At least this was the last stop because the > seat was definitely at risk of being soiled. > > > > After returning home, a drag reduction attempt was made by cutting away > much of the bottom of the lower cowling and reshaping the cooling air out= let > to be much more similar to the original shape as supplied by Van's. This > cut the outlet area approximately in half to 77 sq in which is still larg= er > than that in the unmodified original cowling. This configuration is show= n > in another attached photo. Tuft testing showed no turbulent areas except > for one tuft right behind the exhaust header outlet. Test flights at max > power were conducted with and without the "bomb". > > Without the muffler: 163 knot TAS at 11500 ft DA, 12.4 gal/hr fuel > flow, 5800 rpm, 19.9" MAP > > With the muffler: 160 knot TAS at 11500 ft DA, 12.2 gal/hr fue= l > flow, 5750 rpm. 20.2" MAP > > The 3 knot penalty is a small price to pay since the noise level without > the muffler is unbearable for any length of time. > > Cooling is still satisfactory but under cowl temperatures are higher (~16= 0 > deg F) than before as would be expected with decreased cooling air mass > flow. An enclosure was constructed around the stock Mazda ignition coils > and a blast tube installed from the oil cooler air inlet to this enclosur= e > which keeps the coils at less than 110 deg F. > > > > Several other changes have been made since first flight over two years ag= o: > > > > One is the elimination of the cowling combustion air inlet (snorkel) and > filtered air box as originally supplied by Van's. A NACA duct inlet and = air > filter was installed in the cowling side very near the throttle body. Th= is > eliminated the over 3 foot long 3.25 inch diameter skeet duct from the ai= r > box to the throttle body. This was done to avoid the heating of the air > while inside this duct which resulted in temperatures of the air entering > the throttle body in excess of 110 degrees F in flight regardless of the > OAT. Now, the air entering the throttle body remains within 2 degrees F = of > the OAT. The result is a lower Density altitude seen by the engine. > > > > Another change was the elimination of the vacuum system which included th= e > DG, AI, Mazda smog pump used as the vacuum pump, vacuum regulator, and > associated tubes and filters. In place of the smog pump, a second > alternator was installed. The second alternator led me to eliminate the > second PC680 battery. The instrumentation was replaced by a Dynon D10A > EFIS. A net weight decrease of 19 lb was realized by these changes. > > > > One other change that I made before the CA trip involved problems I had > with tuning the system to transition the injector staging point without > hesitation or misfiring of the engine. This had always been of only slig= ht > concern until during one flight when advancing the throttle after a stall= , > the engine hung up and didn't produce full power for almost 10 seconds. = As > best as I can remember since some sense of panic ensued, first backing of= f > the throttle position significantly from full did not clear the condition= , > but tweaking the mixture control did. The behavior seemed somewhat simi= lar > to SAG as described by others on this list, but I could not correlate the > event to spark plug condition. Further attempts at tuning the mixture ta= ble > in the staging region were unsuccessful at eliminating this behavior. As > also described as having b een tried by others on this list, I tried to > pneumatically filter the manifold pressure input to the EC2 using fuel > filters and various sized orifices in the lines between the plenum and EC= 2. > It was possible to induce surging with orifices of too small opening, but > the staging difficulty was not improved with various combinations of > reservoir and orifice size. During these tests, I found that by proper > (improper?) manipulation of the throttle, I could repeatedly induce the > extended lack of power increase on injector staging. Data recorded by my > monitoring system clearly showed the rpm plateau persisting while changin= g > manifold pressure with the throttle, average fuel flow consistent with th= e > associated MAP at any given instant, and a lean condition as shown by bo= th > O2 sensors. Since the fuel flow was reasonable, the excess O2 could resu= lt > from ineffective ignition: fuel was there, but not being burned and usin= g > up the O2. No faults with the ignition system could be found by tests > including among others checking the ignition timing and using new spark > plugs and wires. Since the condition could be induced by changing manifo= ld > pressure, I postulated that the manifold pressure as seen by the EC2 may = be > unstable or unreliable. Searching the Motorola literature on the sensors > used in the EC2, I found a reference to additional components recommended= to > be installed on the sensor output if the output is connected to an A/D > converter. In desperation, I installed these components into my EC2 and > immediately the misbehavior on staging disappeared. I have not been able= to > induce it again no matter how hard I try. My theory is that under certai= n > conditions, the MAP sensor output goes into oscillation which may or may = not > persist depending on the circumstances. I have not verified this by > bringing the output signals external to the EC2 to an oscilloscope since = if > they are subject to instability, doing so may provide more questions than > answers. I have pretty much kept this under my hat to this point, but > enough time on this change has been accumulated that I am comfortable tha= t > the change is not detrimental at least. I certainly do NOT recommend or > encourage changes to the EC2 without Tracy's input without fully acceptin= g > the risks. I have no proof that my interpretation of the events related > above is correct, simply that it helped in my individual case. > > > > I had hoped to make it to the roundup this year, having bought the charts= , > planned the flight and arranging time off. The front that Bill managed t= o > cross was too much to try to take on from this far away. So here I sit > watching the blowing snow outside wishing that I had made it to the round= up > and that the front had materialized after getting there and thus preventi= ng > my return. > > > > One additional note for those who made it this far. I've been spending > considerable time in our local ice cream parlor in an attempt to maintain= a > constant system in-flight gross weight after the elimination of the hardw= are > as described above. > > > > OOOOH the sacrifices one has to make in the name of research=85. > > > > Steve Boese > > RV-6A, 1986 13B NA, EC2, RD1A =85 > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "sboese" > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:19:22 +0000 > Subject: [FlyRotary] N613BX update > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > ------=_Part_28861_11641110.1224777623971 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Great report Steve. 
 
Here are some more comments about the MAP sensors for those who are co= mfortable checking their own electronics hardware. 
 
Steve's advice about output filters on MAP sensors = is good.  I had noticed some instability on some (but not all) Motorol= a pressure sensors so I have added a small capacitor (.1 uF) to their = outputs on later versions of the EC2 and on the EC3.  I also add = these on all updates if the unit does not already have them.   Th= ere is also another factor that affects this.  The first two= versions of the EC2 board were layed out by an outside source.  = The ground path for the map sensor was so long and convoluted that it aggr= avated the tendency for instability on the sensor, especially on = controller A.  This was also the cause of mixture going crazy on = controller A when transmitting on the radio in some installations.  &n= bsp;Adding a short ground jumper from A controller MAP sensor ground t= o the ground plane on the board fixed this problem. This jumper i= s also added whenever I do updates.   I was wondering if Steve ha= d ever tried switching to B and seeing if it had the same staging glitch.&n= bsp; If the problem was on A only, it may have been due to the gr= ound problem.  Let me know if you tried that Steve.  I&= #39;d recommend adding the jumper in any case.
 
   This same type of ground layout problem caused the radio = receiver noise (a hiss heard in the aircraft radio) on the single part= EM2.  All affected EM2 customers were notified to have = ;them updated and I think all of them have been at this point.  This w= as the reason I quite having my PCB board layouts done by outside sources.&= nbsp;  Just what I needed, another job :>)
 
Very surprised by your airspeed numbers Steve.   They are si= gnificantly lower than I would expect.   Your plane looks pretty = clean except for the cooling outlet.  Purely speculation but I'm g= uessing that cooling drag is still slowing you down.  Both my -4 and -= 8 have only 50 sq in of cooling outlet which means even after you redu= ced it by half you still have about 60% more outlet area than I d= o.  Cooling problems can sometimes be helped by enlarging the out= let but this is always a high drag solution.   I can't rememb= er what kind of inlet ducting you have but that is always the area where co= oling improvements and drag reduction have been found on my plane. &nb= sp; BTW, did you notice much change in top or cruise speed before vs after = the outlet change?   Until you get to the critical point in reduc= tion there is usually very little change.
 
Thanks for the report.
 
Tracy
 
-------------- Original message --------------
Fr= om: "sboese" <sboese@uwyo.edu>

To anyone interested:

 

The following is a response to Doug= 's recent request for updates on flying rotaries:

 

In early June, having recovered suf= ficient courage to try another cross country trip after feeding my prop to = my tow bar (yes Ed, I still have the tow bar) in Minnesota, we finally set = out on another one in our 13B powered RV-6A, this time to the west.  A= fter squeezing between the top of the controlled airspace and a cloud layer= over Great Salt Lake, negotiating a narrow corridor which happened to be &= nbsp;populated with scattered rain showers between restricted airspaces, an= d a fuel stop in Wendover, UT, we crossed Mono Lake, the Sierra Mountains, = and Yosemite Park at 14500 ft with 50 knot headwinds.  Thumbing my nos= e at the concept of shock cooling, we descended over 11,000 ft in 25 miles = and landed at our destination of Mariposa-Yosemite airport.  Other tha= n a little initial roughness on bringing the power back up in the pattern a= fter that descent, probably due to some lead fowling of the plugs since 100= LL was the only suitable fuel available at Wendover, the engine installati= on behaved flawlessly.  This is in contrast to the performance of the = pilot with the different sight picture at the slower ground speeds at lower= density altitude than I ever see at home in Laramie, WY, and the inclined = runway surrounded by hills at MPI.  Thankfully, those details are not = rotary related however, and need not be expanded upon further.

 

The friends we stayed with near Mar= iposa built an award-winning RV-6 with an O-360 and CS prop.  While we= were there, we took a couple of side trips with the planes which gave the = opportunity for some side by side comparisons.  Their take off and cli= mb performance was much more impressive than ours which was not surprising = since our Performance Propellers fixed pitch prop is set up primarily for c= ruise rather than climb.  On one trip, after flying a mile out over th= e Pacific at Monterrey Bay (just to say we did it)  I set up the plane= at max power and made the flight back to MPI under these conditions. = Altitude was 5500 ft, fuel burn was 14.8-15 gal/hr, MAP was 23.8", RPM was= 5900, and IAS was 148 knots.  I don't know what the OAT was, but it w= asn't out of the ordinary.  Our friends reported burning close to 9 ga= l/hr while flying a longside us during this time.  I was somewhat surp= rised by this and one thing in particular came to mind: parasite drag. = ; The attached picture was taken during this flight and two sources of drag= can be readily seen: the large and sharp angled cooling air outlet, and th= e "bomb" which is a muffler.

 

The trip home was relatively uneven= tful and involved a detour over Mammoth Lakes, CA to allow more time to cli= mb and a lower altitude for crossing the Sierras.  At the fuel stop at= Wendover, I discovered a crack in one of the braces between the rear of th= e engine and the exhaust header, but this wasn't a particular cause for wor= ry since I had flown for more than 40 hrs before even installing the two of= those.  Since we did not have headwinds on the return trip, the total= flight time home was an hour less than the flight time out.  The land= ing in Laramie was in conditions not uncommon to this area, landing on runw= ay 21 with the ASOS reporting winds from 250 degrees at 22 gusting to 30.&n= bsp; Thankfully, I had completed a flight review using our plane just a few= days before starting the trip and crosswind technique was one of the thing= s developed.  At least this was the last stop because the seat was def= initely at risk of being soiled.

 

After returning home, a drag reduct= ion attempt was made by cutting away much of the bottom of the lower cowlin= g and reshaping the cooling air outlet to be much more similar to the origi= nal shape as supplied by Van's.  This cut the outlet area approximatel= y in half to 77 sq in which is still larger than that in the unmodified ori= ginal cowling.  This configuration is shown in another attached photo.=   Tuft testing showed no turbulent areas except for one tuft right beh= ind the exhaust header outlet.  Test flights at max power were conduct= ed with and without the "bomb". 

     Without th= e muffler:  163 knot TAS at 11500 ft DA, 12.4 gal/hr fuel flow, 5800 r= pm, 19.9" MAP

      = ;   With the muffler:   160 knot TAS at 11500 ft DA, 12= .2 gal/hr fuel flow, 5750 rpm. 20.2" MAP

The 3 knot penalty is a small price= to pay since the noise level without the muffler is unbearable for any len= gth of time.

Cooling is still satisfactory but u= nder cowl temperatures are higher (~160 deg F) than before as would be expe= cted with decreased cooling air mass flow.  An enclosure was construct= ed around the stock Mazda ignition coils and a blast tube installed from th= e oil cooler air inlet to this enclosure which keeps the coils at less than= 110 deg F. 

 

Several other changes have been mad= e since first flight over two years ago:

 

One is the elimination of the cowli= ng combustion air inlet (snorkel) and filtered air box as originally suppli= ed by Van's.  A NACA duct inlet and air filter was installed in the co= wling side very near the throttle body.  This eliminated the over 3 fo= ot long 3.25 inch diameter skeet duct from the air box to the throttle body= .  This was done to avoid the heating of the air while inside this duc= t which resulted in temperatures of the air entering the throttle body in e= xcess of 110 degrees F in flight regardless of the OAT.  Now, the air = entering the throttle body remains within 2 degrees F of the OAT.  The= result is a lower Density altitude seen by the engine.  

    

Another change was the elimination = of the vacuum system which included the DG, AI, Mazda smog pump used as the= vacuum pump, vacuum regulator, and associated tubes and filters.  In = place of the smog pump, a second alternator was installed.  The second= alternator led me to eliminate the second PC680 battery.  The instrum= entation was replaced by a Dynon D10A EFIS.  A net weight decrease of = 19 lb was realized by these changes.

    

One other change that I made before= the CA trip involved problems I had with tuning the system to transition t= he injector staging point without hesitation or misfiring of the engine.&nb= sp; This had always been of only slight concern until during one flight whe= n advancing the throttle after a stall, the engine hung up and didn't produ= ce full power for almost 10 seconds.  As best as I can remember since = some sense of panic ensued, first backing off the throttle position signifi= cantly from full did not clear the condition, but tweaking the mixture cont= rol did.   The behavior seemed somewhat similar to SAG as describ= ed by others on this list, but I could not correlate the event to spark plu= g condition.  Further attempts at tuning the mixture table in the stag= ing region were unsuccessful at eliminating this behavior.  As also de= scribed as having b een tried by others on this list, I tried to pneumatica= lly filter the manifold pressure input to the EC2 using fuel filters and va= rious sized orifices in the lines between the plenum and EC2.  It was = possible to induce surging with orifices of too small opening, but the stag= ing difficulty was not improved with various combinations of reservoir and = orifice size.  During these tests, I found that by proper (improper?) = manipulation of the throttle, I could repeatedly induce the extended lack o= f power increase on injector staging.  Data recorded by my monitoring = system clearly showed the rpm plateau persisting while changing manifold pr= essure with the throttle, average fuel flow consistent with the associated = MAP at any given instant,  and a lean condition as shown by both O2 se= nsors.  Since the fuel flow was reasonable, the excess O2 could result= from ineffective ignition:  fuel was there, but not being burned and = using up the O2.  No faults with the ignition system could be found by= tests including among others checking the ignition timing and using new sp= ark plugs and wires.  Since the condition could be induced by changing= manifold pressure, I postulated that the manifold pressure as seen by the = EC2 may be unstable or unreliable.  Searching the Motorola literature = on the sensors used in the EC2, I found a reference to additional component= s recommended to be installed on the sensor output if the output is connect= ed to an A/D converter.  In desperation, I installed these components = into my EC2 and immediately the misbehavior on staging disappeared.  I= have not been able to induce it again no matter how hard I try.  My t= heory is that under certain conditions, the MAP sensor output goes into osc= illation which may or may not persist depending on the circumstances. = I have not verified this by bringing the output signals external to the EC= 2 to an oscilloscope since if they are subject to instability, doing so may= provide more questions than answers.  I have pretty much kept this un= der my hat to this point, but enough time on this change has been accumulat= ed that I am comfortable that the change is not detrimental at least. = I certainly do NOT recommend or encourage changes to the EC2 without Tracy= 's input without fully accepting the risks.  I have no proof that my i= nterpretation of the events related above is correct, simply that it helped= in my individual case.         &nb= sp;  

 

I had hoped to make it to the round= up this year, having bought the charts, planned the flight and arranging ti= me off.  The front that Bill managed to cross was too much to try to t= ake on from this far away.  So here I sit watching the blowing snow ou= tside wishing that I had made it to the roundup and that the front had mate= rialized after getting there and thus preventing my return.

 

One additional note for those who m= ade it this far.  I've been spending considerable time in our local ic= e cream parlor in an attempt to maintain a constant system in-flight gross = weight after the elimination of the hardware as described above. 

 

OOOOH the sacrifices one has to mak= e in the name of research=85.  

 

Steve Boese

RV-6A, 1986 13B NA, EC2, RD1A =85



---------- Forwarded= message ----------
From: "sboese" <sboese= @uwyo.edu>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:19:22 +0000
Subject: [FlyRotary] N613BX update
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/=
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:8= 1/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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