X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp107.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([68.142.229.98] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.9) with SMTP id 3231595 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:28:41 -0400 Received: (qmail 24814 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2008 00:28:40 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=b0a4EEvzVwk+0BgJVtxgO7lbNWEaFjpS1SOd+xngKLLNo83fd0YFTO+kCPcSU6rGcZeo9hRGto2VFYl9xOvoB1vSe7DcoDvYzJxFRUSZW7QbyBJlBwhG6bPgaOXoYkaKFBrLHupX67kUfE0dYpNZ8kpGaDZc8UDjQNP4gAOfJq0= ; Received: from unknown (HELO mom) (downing.j@75.5.237.219 with login) by smtp107.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Oct 2008 00:28:39 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 0..wMbEVM1lIqwtx7BP.vE0nXjWxNniiThD401LsS6PuaN8WtKB.lJSMd3i.YQ1xdXx1BAs2aHw4L8gCBzfUBOrWrOi7Hfei2JhNY2BeVKe457YXqNvY4uG.zhxs9o_I_kMKRDY.Dy7Ty5ugtZHbLAK. X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <005001c93315$5c525840$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: "John Downing" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Water in Fuel?? (or another adventure in the aviation events of Ed Anderson) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:38:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01C932F3.D46E2600" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C932F3.D46E2600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Al, as the water is heavier than the fuel, the water droplets will = normally travel along the bottom of the hose or tubing, dropping out at = the first low location. Some turkey stole the gas out of the Piper Colt = one time and a 4 inch layer of snow without the cap left a bit of water = drops laying around on the bottom of the tank, two cans of dry-gas took = care of the condition. Now if we can get Ed to burn auto fuel, the = alcohol will absorb the water and any left over after a sump drain check = will go thru unnoticed. JohnD=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:40 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water in Fuel?? (or another adventure in the = aviation events of Ed Anderson) In my design, the primary injectors are first in the fuel rail loop = with both secondary injectors following then the pressure regulator. So = perhaps the primary injectors were injecting a high ratio of fuel/water = whereas by the time the slug got to the secondaries it was mostly water? Wait, turning the cold start on OR turning either injector pair off (secondary in my incident) both result in the same effect of doubling = the pulse duration. Any time you turn an injector pair off you also = ground (turn on) the cold start circuit (right Tracy???). Cold start doubles the pulse to all 4 injectors; turning off one set = doubles the pulse to the remaining two. I was guessing maybe the secondary were maybe first in line; but the = reality is there is no way of telling where the water was going to go = first, or how much in each, or whatever. Al So turning the secondary injectors off probably simply provide the = same effect (for whatever reason) as turning on the cold start.=20 In my "incident" several years ago, I was able to keep the engine = running approx 30-45 seconds longer with the cold switch on than with it off. Sometimes 30-45 seconds longer engine run might make a difference. In any case, checking fuel for water goes back to getting the emphasis = it deserves. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Dale Rogers Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:40 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water in Fuel?? (or another adventure in the aviation events of Ed Anderson) Bob Mears wrote: > I actually a little surprised it had that much stumble. I would = think=20 > with the fuel injection and a re circulating system it would just = pass=20 > the water through the system and slowly burn it off. I guess it was = a=20 > fair amount of water and thats all that was going through the system = > at the time. Like a quart of so in the bottom of the tank. That = would=20 > take a bit to pass through. Interesting. That depends on how much fuel can be held in a branch that has no = outlet=20 other than the injector. If the runs off the main path are short, = then=20 the effect should be short lived (but pucker-factor is measured in = very=20 long, individual, nano-seconds). Dale R. -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C932F3.D46E2600 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Al, as the water is heavier than the = fuel, the=20 water droplets will normally travel along the bottom of the hose or = tubing,=20 dropping out at the first low location.  Some turkey stole the gas = out of=20 the Piper Colt one time and a 4 inch layer of snow without the cap left = a bit of=20 water drops laying around on the bottom of the tank, two cans of dry-gas = took=20 care of the condition.  Now if we can get Ed to burn auto fuel, the = alcohol=20 will absorb the water and any left over after a sump drain check will go = thru=20 unnoticed.  JohnD 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Al = Gietzen=20
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 = 4:40=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water = in Fuel??=20 (or another adventure in the aviation events of Ed Anderson)

In my design, the primary injectors are = first in the=20 fuel rail loop with

both secondary injectors following then the = pressure=20 regulator.  So perhaps

the primary injectors were injecting a high = ratio of=20 fuel/water whereas by

the time the slug got to the secondaries it = was mostly=20 water?

 

Wait, turning the cold start on OR turning = either=20 injector pair off

(secondary in my incident) both result in = the same=20 effect of doubling the

pulse duration.  Any time you turn an=20 injector  pair off you also ground

(turn on) the cold start circuit (right=20 Tracy???).

 

Cold = start doubles=20 the pulse to all 4 injectors; turning off one set doubles the pulse to = the=20 remaining two.

 

I was = guessing=20 maybe the secondary were maybe first in line; but the reality is there = is no=20 way of telling where the water was going to go first, or how much in = each, or=20 whatever.

 

Al

 

So turning the secondary injectors off = probably simply=20 provide the same

effect (for whatever reason) as turning on = the cold=20 start.

 

In my "incident" several years ago, I was = able to keep=20 the engine running

approx 30-45 seconds longer with the cold = switch on=20 than with it off.

Sometimes 30-45 seconds longer engine run = might make a=20 difference.

 

In any case, checking fuel for water goes = back to=20 getting the emphasis it

deserves.

 

Ed

 

Ed Anderson

 

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered

 

Matthews, NC

 

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

 

http://www.andersonee.com

 

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

 

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On

Behalf Of Dale Rogers

Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 = 11:40=20 AM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water in Fuel?? (or = another=20 adventure in the

aviation events of Ed = Anderson)

 

Bob Mears <bmears9413@aol.com>=20 wrote:

> I actually a little surprised it had = that much=20 stumble. I would think

> with the fuel injection and a re = circulating=20 system it would just pass

> the water through the system and slowly = burn it=20 off. I guess it was a

> fair amount of water and thats all that = was going=20 through the system

> at the time. Like a quart of so in the = bottom of=20 the tank. That would

> take a bit to pass through.=20 Interesting.

 

That depends on how much fuel can be held in = a branch=20 that has no outlet

other than the injector.  If the runs = off the=20 main path are short, then

the effect should be short lived (but = pucker-factor is=20 measured in very

long, individual, = nano-seconds).

 

Dale R.

 

 

 

--

Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:

http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 = Antivirus,=20 version of virus signature

database 3267 (20080714) = __________

 

The message was checked by ESET NOD32=20 Antivirus.

 

http://www.eset.com

 

 

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 = Antivirus,=20 version of virus signature

database 3267 (20080714) = __________

 

The message was checked by ESET NOD32=20 Antivirus.

 

http://www.eset.com

 

 

 

--

Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/

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