X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.9) with ESMTP id 3231349 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:18:19 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20081020211743.JEML17023.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@computername> for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:17:43 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Water in Fuel?? (or another adventure in the aviation events of Ed Anderson) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2008 17:17:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C932D7.C6DCB400" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Acky65eqFIwplMh6TOSwR0yipMVwvgADQLMw In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Message-Id: <20081020211743.JEML17023.cdptpa-omta05.mail.rr.com@computername> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C932D7.C6DCB400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Al, Yes, I misstated =96 the cold start does double the duration = to all four injectors when turned on. So when one pair is grounded the = cold start is turned on - but only the remaining pair is firing so the fuel = flow is =BD of what it would be with just the cold start switch turned on = using its toggle switch with both pair firing. =20 So I agree, don=92t know why turning on/off the secondary would make a difference but it clearly did as I did it twice and the engine ran = smoother with the secondary off both times. =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html _____ =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 4:40 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water in Fuel?? (or another adventure in the aviation events of Ed Anderson) =20 In my design, the primary injectors are first in the fuel rail loop with both secondary injectors following then the pressure regulator. So = perhaps the primary injectors were injecting a high ratio of fuel/water whereas = by the time the slug got to the secondaries it was mostly water? =20 Wait, turning the cold start on OR turning either injector pair off (secondary in my incident) both result in the same effect of doubling = the pulse duration. Any time you turn an injector pair off you also ground (turn on) the cold start circuit (right Tracy???). =20 Cold start doubles the pulse to all 4 injectors; turning off one set = doubles the pulse to the remaining two. =20 I was guessing maybe the secondary were maybe first in line; but the = reality is there is no way of telling where the water was going to go first, or = how much in each, or whatever. =20 Al =20 So turning the secondary injectors off probably simply provide the same effect (for whatever reason) as turning on the cold start.=20 =20 In my "incident" several years ago, I was able to keep the engine = running approx 30-45 seconds longer with the cold switch on than with it off. Sometimes 30-45 seconds longer engine run might make a difference. =20 In any case, checking fuel for water goes back to getting the emphasis = it deserves. =20 Ed =20 Ed Anderson =20 Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered =20 Matthews, NC =20 eanderson@carolina.rr.com =20 http://www.andersonee.com =20 http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW =20 http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Dale Rogers Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:40 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water in Fuel?? (or another adventure in the aviation events of Ed Anderson) =20 Bob Mears wrote: > I actually a little surprised it had that much stumble. I would think=20 > with the fuel injection and a re circulating system it would just pass = > the water through the system and slowly burn it off. I guess it was a=20 > fair amount of water and thats all that was going through the system=20 > at the time. Like a quart of so in the bottom of the tank. That would=20 > take a bit to pass through. Interesting. =20 That depends on how much fuel can be held in a branch that has no outlet = other than the injector. If the runs off the main path are short, then=20 the effect should be short lived (but pucker-factor is measured in very=20 long, individual, nano-seconds). =20 Dale R. =20 =20 =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ =20 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. =20 http://www.eset.com =20 =20 =20 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ =20 The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. =20 http://www.eset.com =20 =20 =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C932D7.C6DCB400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks, Al, Yes, I misstated = – the cold start does double the duration to all four injectors when turned = on.  So when one pair is grounded the cold start is turned on - but only the = remaining pair is firing so the fuel flow is ½ of what it would be with = just the cold start switch turned on using its toggle switch with both pair = firing.

 

So I agree, don’t know why = turning on/off the secondary would make a difference but it clearly did as I did = it twice and the engine ran smoother with the secondary off both = times.

 

Ed

 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com=

http://www.andersonee.com

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html<= font size=3D2 face=3DArial>

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al = Gietzen
Sent: Monday, October 20, = 2008 4:40 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Water in Fuel?? (or another adventure in the aviation events of Ed = Anderson)

 

In my design, the primary injectors are first in the fuel rail loop = with

both secondary injectors following then the pressure regulator.  So = perhaps

the primary injectors were injecting a high ratio of fuel/water whereas = by

the time the slug got to the secondaries it was mostly = water?

 

Wait, turning the cold start on OR turning either injector pair = off

(secondary in my incident) both result in the same effect of doubling = the

pulse duration.  Any time you turn an injector  pair off you also = ground

(turn on) the cold start circuit (right = Tracy???).

 

Cold start = doubles the pulse to all 4 injectors; turning off one set doubles the pulse to the remaining two.

 <= /font>

I was = guessing maybe the secondary were maybe first in line; but the reality is there is no way = of telling where the water was going to go first, or how much in each, or whatever.

 <= /font>

Al

 

So turning the secondary injectors off probably simply provide the = same

effect (for whatever reason) as turning on the cold start. =

 

In my "incident" several years ago, I was able to keep the engine running

approx 30-45 seconds longer with the cold switch on than with it = off.

Sometimes 30-45 seconds longer engine run might make a = difference.

 

In any case, checking fuel for water goes back to getting the emphasis = it

deserves.

 

Ed

 

Ed Anderson

 

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered

 

Matthews, NC

 

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

 

http://www.andersonee.com

 

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs= .htm#N494BW

 

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On

Behalf Of Dale Rogers

Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 11:40 AM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Water in Fuel?? (or another adventure in = the

aviation events of Ed Anderson)

 

Bob Mears <bmears9413@aol.com> wrote:

> I actually a little surprised it had that much stumble. I would think =

> with the fuel injection and a re circulating system it would just pass =

> the water through the system and slowly burn it off. I guess it was a =

> fair amount of water and thats all that was going through the system =

> at the time. Like a quart of so in the bottom of the tank. That would =

> take a bit to pass through. Interesting.

 

That depends on how much fuel can be held in a branch that has no outlet =

other than the injector.  If the runs off the main path are short, then =

the effect should be short lived (but pucker-factor is measured in very =

long, individual, nano-seconds).

 

Dale R.

 

 

 

--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:

http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrota= ry/List.html

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature

database 3267 (20080714) __________

 

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 = Antivirus.

 

http://www.eset.com

 

 

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature

database 3267 (20080714) __________

 

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 = Antivirus.

 

http://www.eset.com

 

 

 

--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C932D7.C6DCB400--