X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ik-out-1112.google.com ([66.249.90.179] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.8) with ESMTP id 3197369 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 21:13:34 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.249.90.179; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by ik-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id c29so982883ika.3 for ; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:12:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=k7Ddq8zxUsdIyp8pYjj42QTuZg7vxQixtKJ35v+LA5Y=; b=l1RxabNLoohL+z/wuHxj4Ox0ew+lvjYcarvQ9OAEwnfQg5MqfEv/qm5Tjp5wmociFC sY/wc1FaBJ4Ap1NgexVXs7gUK4ha8HKz5UmhDt/WIOwFkOsW/IgJZyQQlov6kSVmPXa3 imOlvfPf6mz+WpTwP5ZfWEl7oFq0MbmPCefgI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=tRL+2LtqwzNPZoIf8OCAAJX0aX5McqWnj1dNMRT37kuz9X7Dv6Q5n1nyR4sLCtr/zU +dVhPRCte6NtnPCXDs7sEEnnnu28zXl4LWDefQCt/cfH7rZSNIk4kWazOobw0+z/mEvJ bXQryGkpOZ0765vXO9HfBvsKGYLKL7xnqM1mE= Received: by 10.210.123.2 with SMTP id v2mr396363ebc.186.1222996374524; Thu, 02 Oct 2008 18:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.24.6 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5cf132c0810021812s61fefaafh20b819465a5a1ae7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 20:12:54 -0500 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Question on EM-2 autotune In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_18354_9271716.1222996374528" References: ------=_Part_18354_9271716.1222996374528 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Bill, The settings that Tracy installed worked pretty well on my engine, and so I left the B controller alone until I got the A controller running better than the factory settings. Once you're pretty satisfied with how it runs on A, then you can copy A to B. Then you can keep fine tuning A and even go to auto-tune in the air with confidence that you could always switch to B if things go south. Keep in mind that I had some data corruption problems similar to Al Gietzen. It seems to be a problem with fiberglass airplanes, so don't be surprised if you experience this too. With me, it always happened while on the ground. Last time it happened, I looked at each of the 3 tables and saw that only one was actually corrupted, so it is possible that it may have happened in the air, but since I was running above 3800 rpm (and operating in the upper table), I didn't notice any difference. Nobody really knows what causes this problem, but I seem to have fixed it by running a separate ground from the PCM to the forest-of-tabs ground. The thought was that the sub-panel was mounted on a fiberglass frame and therefore was isolated from ground. I have not had an episode since I added the ground. You're correct on your understanding of MAP address 64 - 67. You're not going to get there (in auto-tune) on the ground. The MAP reading is < 10" during base and final approach phases. My experience has been that this area needs to be much richer than the rest of your table in order to keep the engine running smoothly when descending on base and final. Before I got my auto-tune feature working and hadn't figured out which addresses were in need of adjusting, I would have to adjust the mixture full rich to get close to the correct mixture. After auto-tuning this area, I can now leave it alone all the way to touchdown. To give you some idea of this, address #64 is set to +124, and it probably could be set to +128. Mark S. On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Bill Schertz wrote: > Not too many oak trees at my airport, so I have been tying it to my car. > I know what you mean about it skipping over the 'reduced manifold' > pressure, high rpm table values. Did you copy your A to B or leave it as > normal before your first flight? I pushed it to 5900 rpm today for a short > period, and it was trying to jump the chocks. maybe I need a less stretchy > rope. > > I did have it in track mode, and the map moved as I changed throttle > setting, but the actual reading on the bottom row of MAP is different than > the second row. The map address is the same. i.e. address 77, 16.5 in the > edit area, and 77, 17.4 in the EC-2 area. > > positions 64 67 would be in the idle setting (10 to 11.5" manifold > pressure) with rpm over 2800. I don't see how to get that on the ground, too > much prop load. Did I misinterpret? > > Bill Schertz > KIS Cruiser #4045 > N343BS > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mark Steitle > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:44 AM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Question on EM-2 autotune > > Bill, > > Tie it to something solid, like a big oak tree. Personally, I find that it > is much easier to "auto-tune" in flight (at altitude), but don't try it > until you're very comfortable with the process and have a working "B" > controller in case things don't go as planned. This was the only way I > could get the EC-2 in the MAP address range that is in play when preparing > to land (abeam the numbers, turning base, and turning final. As I recall, > these were addresses 64 - 67. The EC-2 would skip over these when I would > try to tune this MAP range the ground. I simulated a landing sequence while > in auto-tune and was able to fix the tuning for these addresses. Unless you > can afford some time on a dyno, "tie it to a big tree" is the best advice > I can offer. > > Mark S. > 87 hrs > > On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Bill Schertz wrote: > >> Thanks Mark, I will check it again on the next engine run. >> >> By the way, it gets a little hairy as you go up in MP while the aircraft >> is tied down. The prop really pulls hard. >> Bill Schertz >> KIS Cruiser #4045 >> N343BS >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Mark Steitle >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Thursday, October 02, 2008 7:45 AM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Question on EM-2 autotune >> >> Bill, >> >> If the MAP address moves up and down with manifold pressure changes, then >> it is tracking. If you're not in track mode, the MAP address being edited >> is determined by the UP and DOWN buttons. Don't forget to put it in mode 9 >> to activate the Auto-Tune feature. >> >> As a side note, I had to set the program knob to about 3 o-clock to get >> the tuning to come in to where I wanted it. At 12 o-clock it was much too >> lean. Not sure why, but I'm sure that Tracy could enlighten me. >> >> Mark S. >> >> On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Bill Schertz wrote: >> >>> Question for those operating a EC-2/EM-2 combination that have used >>> track mode and autotune. >>> >>> According to my manual, to go into TRACK mode, >>> 1. set mode 0 on EC2 >>> 2. Select EC2 MA{P table mode on EM2 (hold abort and pres ACK) (this >>> works) >>> 3. Select TRACK mode (Hold UP button (1) and press DOWN (2), >>> >>> Verify that EM2 MAP is tracking engine -- This is where I have a >>> question. From my reading of the manual, >>> LINE 1 and 2 show the MAP location being edited, >>> and in Track Mode, >>> Line 3 and 4 show the actual location the engine is running at. >>> >>> My question is that line 1 and 3 show the same value, I.e. the same >>> location in the MAP table, but lines 2 and 4 are showing different values >>> for the manifold pressure. For example, >>> >>> MAP location 9 showed 14.5 on the line 2, and 16.0 on line 4. >>> >>> This makes me wonder whether the Track mode is operating correctly. >>> >>> Any comments from those who have used this feature? >>> Bill Schertz >>> KIS Cruiser #4045 >>> N343BS >>> >> >> > ------=_Part_18354_9271716.1222996374528 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Bill,

The settings that Tracy installed worked pretty well on my engine, and so I left the B controller alone until I got the A controller running better than the factory settings.  Once you're pretty satisfied with how it runs on A, then you can copy A to B.  Then you can keep fine tuning A and even go to auto-tune in the air with confidence that you could always switch to B if things go south. 

Keep in mind that I had some data corruption problems similar to Al Gietzen.  It seems to be a problem with fiberglass airplanes, so don't be surprised if you experience this too.  With me, it always  happened while on the ground.  Last time it happened, I looked at each of the 3 tables and saw that only one was actually corrupted, so it is possible that it may have happened in the air, but since I was running above 3800 rpm (and operating in the upper table), I didn't notice any difference.  Nobody really knows what causes this problem, but I seem to have fixed it by running a separate ground from the PCM to the forest-of-tabs ground.  The thought was that the sub-panel was mounted on a fiberglass frame and therefore was isolated from ground.  I have not had an episode since I added the ground.  

You're correct on your understanding of MAP address 64 - 67.  You're not going to get there (in auto-tune) on the ground.  The MAP reading is < 10" during base and final approach phases.  My experience has been that this area needs to be much richer than the rest of your table in order to keep the engine running smoothly when descending on base and final.  Before I got my auto-tune feature working and hadn't figured out which addresses were in need of adjusting, I would have to adjust the mixture full rich to get close to the correct mixture.  After auto-tuning this area, I can now leave it alone all the way to touchdown.  To give you some idea of this, address #64 is set to +124, and it probably could be set to +128.


Mark S.


On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Bill Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net> wrote:
Not too many oak trees at my airport, so I have been tying it to my car. I know what you mean about it skipping over the 'reduced manifold'  pressure, high rpm table values. Did you copy your A to B or leave it as normal before your first flight? I pushed it to 5900 rpm today for a short period, and it was trying to jump the chocks. maybe I need a less stretchy rope.
 
I did have it in track mode, and the map moved as I changed throttle setting, but the actual reading on the bottom row of MAP is different than the second row. The map address is the same.  i.e. address 77, 16.5 in the edit area, and 77, 17.4 in the EC-2 area.
 
positions 64 67 would be in the idle setting (10 to 11.5" manifold pressure) with rpm over 2800. I don't see how to get that on the ground, too much prop load. Did I misinterpret?
 
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Steitle
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:44 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Question on EM-2 autotune

Bill,
 
Tie it to something solid, like a big oak tree.  Personally, I find that it is much easier to "auto-tune" in flight (at altitude), but don't try it until you're very comfortable with the process and have a working "B" controller in case things don't go as planned.  This was the only way I could get the EC-2 in the MAP address range that is in play when preparing to land (abeam the numbers, turning base, and turning final.  As I recall, these were addresses 64 - 67.  The EC-2 would skip over these when I would try to tune this MAP range the ground.  I simulated a landing sequence while in auto-tune and was able to fix the tuning for these addresses.  Unless you can afford some time on a dyno, "tie it to a big tree" is the best advice I can offer.
 
Mark S.
87 hrs   

On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Bill Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net> wrote:
Thanks Mark, I will check it again on the next engine run.
 
By the way, it gets a little hairy as you go up in MP while the aircraft is tied down. The prop really pulls hard.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Steitle
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 7:45 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Question on EM-2 autotune

Bill,
 
If the MAP address moves up and down with manifold pressure changes, then it is tracking.  If you're not in track mode, the MAP address being edited is determined by the UP and DOWN buttons.  Don't forget to put it in mode 9 to activate the Auto-Tune feature.
 
As a side note, I had to set the program knob to about 3 o-clock to get the tuning to come in to where I wanted it.  At 12 o-clock it was much too lean.  Not sure why, but I'm sure that Tracy could enlighten me. 
 
Mark S.

On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Bill Schertz <wschertz@comcast.net> wrote:
Question for those operating a EC-2/EM-2 combination that have used track mode and autotune.
 
According to my manual, to go into TRACK mode,
1. set mode 0 on EC2
2. Select EC2 MA{P table mode on EM2 (hold abort and pres ACK) (this works)
3. Select TRACK mode (Hold UP button (1) and press DOWN (2),
 
Verify that EM2 MAP is tracking engine  -- This is where I have a question. From my reading of the manual,
LINE 1  and 2 show the MAP location being edited,
and in Track Mode,
Line 3 and 4 show the actual location the engine is running at.
 
My question is that line 1 and 3 show the same value, I.e. the same location in the MAP table, but lines 2 and 4 are showing different values for the manifold pressure. For example,
 
MAP location 9 showed 14.5 on the line 2, and 16.0 on line 4.
 
This makes me wonder whether the Track mode is operating correctly.
 
Any comments from those who have used this feature?
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS



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